Oh yeah... It is the unions fault. That makes sense. What an intelligent post.

LMFAO!!!! Although I am personally not pro-union, your post has to be about the dumbest thing I have read/heard today! Were you serious when you posted this or were you simply joking? I hope it is the second....

Coming from a guy whose avatar was a mass-murdering, cowardly philanderer, that's pretty dang funny.

Sir for your information, the MCC (Metropolitan Correction Center) is under staffed, the union, and texting have nothing to do with tax dollars. Your right about one thing, THIS COUNTRY IS MESSED UP!!!!!

shut up a**hole

Hey Moron. Why is it the unions fault. Going by your name you should love the unions. They are the ones who built the country up and provided a home for you and the ungreatful people you hang with at Dunkin Donuts. WIth all of your relatives staying in our prisons they are over crowded.

did ya miss the "escaped bank robbers" part?

The title of the article kinda says it all!!!

it would help if you actually read

I called the police, after picking my child up from school...(between 183rd and 177), I saw 2 men, one black, one white, at the bus stop. I DID call the police, and told them about it.

My guess is that they hopped on the Rock Island Train without needing any help. The downtown station is literally blocks away from the correctional bldg. In the morning rush, as long as they ditched the orange jumpsuits, no one would have noticed them looking out of place. :-(

Plus it sounds like one of them went to Sheperd, so would have known the area and that the train was right there.

I don't think they have much regards for what they are allowed or not allowed to do.

Good for you, Arlene! I saw two men, one black and one white, at Flossmoor Country Club. I called the police too, looks like they stole golf clubs, one man had a bag over his shoulder, the other one stole golf shoes he was wearing!

I forgot about that...this is scary!!!

You have no idea what is going on with the Lane Bryant case. I hate when ignorant individuals use one tragic event as an excuse to bash the police. If you don't like Tinley Park or do not feel the police force can adequately protect your safety, feel free to move.

Tinley Police are a well trained department, you can move to Chicago where 485 people have been shot and killed. Note: With a large majority of those Homicides still unsolved.

Why do you think they will not harm anyone? They are in jail for ARMED Robbery, they at least threatened people with weapons in the past. I am sorry you are related to them, but they are garbage. All the tax money money being wasted by this and past crimes, the amount of people scared by news that there children's school is locked down, I hope they are caught and never let out again. Selfish Pricks

According to the FBI, these men are considered armed and dangerous. Why would anyone vouch for the character of a bank robber?

yeah, everyone should walk around with hidden guns. I would feel much safer.
Ay Caramba!

Mary - You should change your name to Annie Oakley. You sure do love your guns and think they are the answer to everything.

Exactly right Mary. The overturning of the concealed carry ban was the best thing to happen in illinois in a long time. Finally the courts agree that it is as important to protect yourself outside the home as it is inside your home. In six months Illinois will be the las state to allow concealed carry and its about time.

Its interesting that people complain about concealed carry in illinois but have no problem traveling to any other state that has had concealed carry for many years. None of the other 49 states have had any problems with licensed concealed carry permit holders, none!

The conceal and carry laws need to be in place, IL is one of a few states that does not allow it...yet how many times do we hear about murders or shootings in our state?? More than most I can bet! I was never for conceal n carry but after the recent events of the last two weeks with all of the shootings, we need to be allowed to protect ourselves OUTSIDE of our homes not just inside! If you take vacation out of state, I bet you that you walk among people who DO CONCEAL but yet you still go there! Mary I am 110% with you on that, when they offer the classes in the coming months my name will be on it for sure!

exactly--i can guarantee ppl will think twice if they know there is a possibility someone is carrying a gun and can defend themselves! --crime rates would go down--

Emily,
I know I'm safe today if two bank robbers come busting through my door.
Are you?

Having a gun makes you safe?

Yes Mary, I am safe. Without a gun. All this over reacting isn't doing anyone any favors. If your door isn't safe enough to keep a man from busting through it, I would look into a new one.

"If your door isn't safe enough to keep a man from busting through it, I would look into a new one."
I guess you have unbreakable windows in your house, right Emily?
I would bet my bottom dollar that if I was so inclined, I could break into your house, right through your "impregnable" door.

Comments like these just prove you look for a fear factor to justify your need for violent protection.

Tired of the B.S.
You just proved my point. You own guns and train your family to use them. Now because of an internet comments section online you are overreacting and just told a lady you can break into her house. That is why I do not feel safer knowing that you have a gun.

A J and Emily
Both of you should take a DEEP breath.
A J, I merely pointed out to Emily that her house may not be as safe as she thinks. I don't know Emily or where she lives, but, it's a safe assumption that her house has windows (easily broken) and a door that is no where near as strong as the one she suggested Mary Carumba purchase.
The fact is that there are threats to your safety that may or may not ever show up at your door. I prefer to take responsibility for my family and my own safety whenever possible, you can choose not to if you please.
I live in the real world where terrible things happen to people every day and choose to be able to protect myself and my family if the need arises, you can wait for somebody else to come to your aid, your choice is not mine.
Just remember, if that time comes when you are facing danger in your home or on the street, as the saying goes, when seconds count the police are only minutes away.
Emily, you are the last one that I would turn to for an interpretation of my rights under the second amendment as you already seem to feel that having a gun is wrong.

"Emily,
I know I'm safe today if two bank robbers come busting through my door.
Are you?"

So your telling me Mary when you walk around your house you have your gun strapped to you the entire time? That's the only way your safe if anyone breaks in your house. If you leave it upstairs in a box buried under some clothes (like what most gun holders do) then obviously your not safe. What would you do? "Hold on robber let me go upstairs real quick." Yea Mary you make no sense.

TOTBS, I can't speak for Emily, but I can tell you I feel very secure in my residence. I live in a second floor condominium. You'd need an extendable ladder to get up to my windows. My unit can only be accessed from the inside of the building. You have to have a key or be buzzed in to gain access. I replaced the back door to my unit and had the locks changed on the front one a few days after I moved in. I don't need a gun to feel safe. Also, I have very few items that are worth stealing. My TV is an old CRT tube one and my gaming system is a first generation PS2.

You're right Mike F. nobody has ever had their second floor condo broken into. Nobody has ever gotten into a building that has a buzzer on the door. I'm glad you feel safe but don't think it can't happen to you.
As I have said earlier, if you don't want a gun, don't get one.
Just stop trying to take away my right to have one (or more).

The right to protect is just that our right. If WE choose to conceal and carry that is now OUR RIGHT..we are NOT judging you for how you feel about it! Good luck finding another state that doesn't allow conceal and carry...I believe there is only one state left. You can conceal and carry in Indiana...and who hasn't been there?? Casino anyone?? I have a strong hunch that those we feel they are safe in their homes also believe that the world will end in 3 days...lets take off those rose colored glasses you hide behind and face facts...The world IS NOT ending! If so it would have ended 3 or 4 months ago as the Mayans had no LEAP YEAR! And our streets ARE NOT what they used to be, crime is moving into our quiet burbs and its time for us to take the steps we need to take to make it safe for our kids to play outside again instead of playing shoot'em up games on the XBOX or PS3....and if that means carrying...then so be it...you never know it may be one of us that will carry that saves your life!

I agree. Nice little defenseless Illinois---the only state in the Union---how ridiculous. It certainly hasn't worked for Chicago! Criminals will get their guns and use them---on defenseless citizens. This has got to change!

I completely agree Mary. People are less likely to attack someone if they think they may have a gun on them. Take North Carolina for example which started allowing concealed weapons in '95 - "In 1995, there were 45,016 such crimes throughout the state. In 2010, the last year for which state level data is available, there were 34,033 such crimes." With population growth that is 42% difference.
"In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year."
"After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005)."
"More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws"

Thank you Mary! I feel much safer knowing that there are law abiding citizens trained and carrying! 170 days to go.........

I feel very safe in my home with the guns I have to protect my family from scum such as these two, how about you?

I feel wonderfully safe without guns.

Lock and Load!!!

I feel much less safe knowing nut jobs with families that are tired of the B.S. keep an arsenal of guns in their home.

I am not a " nut jobs with families that are tired of the B.S. keep an arsenal of guns in their home".
I happen to be an honorably discharged veteran with a family that knows how to handle weapons.
Would you feel safer if the only ones with firearms were the criminals and the police?
The national average of police response time to a 911 call is around six minutes. I prefer not to wait that long to respond to a threat to my family.

Oh yeah... just like the lady who trained her kid how to shoot assault rifles in Connecticut. I do feel much safer....

A J
If you don't like guns, that is OK with me.
Just as the first amendment gives you the right to freely express yourself, the second amendment gives me the right to own guns.
When you give up your right to free speech, I will give up my right to bear arms.
By the way, I served so that you could enjoy these and many other freedoms that we all enjoy in this great country.
One of the biggest differences between you and I is that I would not try to take your freedoms away, while you and others seem to want to take away mine.

The second amendment provides for a militia because it was written before we had police and a military. Militias are no longer useful. I also don't think that assault rifles were invented in 1789. I believe they still used single shot muskets. You can correct me if I am wrong on that. The Constitution also failed to ban slavery or the right for women to vote. Times change. I appreciate your service to our country. I am simply saying that knowing you have guns in your house and train your children to shoot, doesn't make me feel any safer.

The fact that I have guns is not for YOU to feel safer. It is for me and mine to BE safer.
As far as what the second amendment was for, I was taught that the second amendment is there so that the people had a way to protect themselves against a tyrannical government.
By the way, pretty sure that we had a military at the time the Constitution was written. Remember that guy named General George Washington? He was in command of our military when we fought the English for our freedom.

BS - AJ is the one correct on the 2nd Amendment. Maybe you should own a gun from 1791 when the 2nd Amendment was created. If our founding fathers could see how people have abused that and created weapons solely used to hunt people, they'd be ashamed.

Yes, I remember George Washington. His Continental Army disbanded after the Revolutionary War, before the Constitution was written. Militias were used as the nations ground army. That is why the 2nd amendment refers to militias.
As I stated before, militias are no longer a necessity.

I am glad you and yours feel safer with a bunch of guns in your home. I suppose you are also prepping for the world to end on Friday too. All the best to you.

Tired of the B.S.

As I previously stated, don't tel me you walk around your house strapped with a weapon the entire time in which would be the only case you would feel safe. I'm sure you have it somewhere up in your room, in some box buried under clothes or in your closet. So don't give us this B.S. excuse your safe at your home when/if someone breaks in because we all know you won't have time to run upstairs and grab the weapon as if the robber won't chase you. Or what if the robber had a weapon himself and yours was upstairs. Tell me what the hell would you do then? Unless you really walk around with a gun on your hip the entire time when your HOME, your not safe.

Hey Donn,
Since you seem to think you know so much about me and what I do or don't do in my house, why don't you stop by and see what happens when you kick in my door.
I believe that when my dogs are done with you, I might not even need my gun, but I will have plenty of time to get to one of them and will be ready to use it if needed.

I'll have some of whatever Emily is taking or smoking, please!

All the concern with what they are wearing. Do you know how easy it is to change your clothes?

A J and Emily
You are both wrong.
First A J, The United States of America has always had a military.
The U.S. Navy has been in existence since October 13, 1775.
The army was disbanded because we won, we had an ocean as a moat to keep our enemies at bay, a navy was the smartest choice for our forefathers. They were almost as broke then as we are now.
Emily, while I know some people that hunt with muzzle loaders (those are guns that are similar to what they had in 1791) I think that those guns are actually kinda dangerous, you know, all that loose gunpowder and stuff. I think modern guns are much safer.
A J, if the founding fathers had fought with assault rifles, I'm sure that those would have been the ones that they spoke of when they wrote " the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
While you both seem to know about the militia part of the Second Amendment, you seem to forget the second part.
This amendment is very short and I think that was to stop any "interpretation" of what it means.
#1 establish a militia, no longer necessary due to our military.
#2 allow regular citizens to have a means of protection for their own safety and to keep the government from becoming tyrannical. That is what we had just fought a war to get away from and I don't think they wanted to fight again.

One of the things both of you seem to forget was that the Constitution was not written to keep the citizens under control of the government, but to keep the government under control of the people.
That's why it starts with:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
It did not start with We the government of the United States.
It was written by the people for the people.

Hey AJ- did you know the constitution does not provide for a right to vote for anyone? All it says is that IF you are allowed to vote then you can't discriminate. I dare you to find the right to vote. You are also way off on the 2nd amendment. You left out the part about "the right of the people", but that just makes it convenient for you.

Illinois placed fifth in the country for highest-paid correctional officers, with salaries of $51,530.
That doesn't seem too bad to me.

Your son in law apparent;y isn't too good at jail guarding. Escaping down 15 floors by rope means your boy is asleep on the job. I'd say the guards are way over paid based on this escape.

Did this woman say he was the one in charge or even on duty? Jumping down her throat is doing no one any good except feeding your need to be mean and spiteful.

Emily,

You seem a little cranky, accusing people of the very things you do best.

Go eat another box of doughnuts.

FYI, the Metropolitan Correctional Center is a federal holding facility, not State of Illinois. That's why the FBI is involved.

Mary - why would I eat a box of donuts?

Ahahaha I'm gonna pee myself Mary!

If these two can figure out how to escape I wonder when more will be leaving!!!

Amazing isn't it?

Right! Why would they go to a family member's house? That's the first place the PoPo's would look. I agree with someone's comment that they had some help.

PoPo? Wow.

Rose, I am freaking out too....but then again, the escapee's have to be freaking out more than us. Let's pray they are apprehended and sent back to jail soon.

I'm freaking out as well...

You need to stay calm. Lock your doors and relax.

Cautious is the best word. Fear is not real. Be cautious and calm.

Don't even think about going there.

Mike F...I can and will go there...last I checked I lived in America...I have the right to the freedom of speech and the right to own a gun....and you for one won't keep me from doing either.

Older seniors as opposed to the young ones?

I personally know of a family of dwarfs (or is that dwarves) who live around 171st. Please keep an eye out for small people who travel in packs!

Amy - you do live in a good area.

Thank u Emily!! I'm thinking they are long out of the area!

It is scary which is why the schools went on soft lockdown. The kids are fine.

Mike - I appreciate the humor but I don't think it's helping.

Very funny and way to go Mike.
Still laughing!!

Emily, I don't like you. You're kind of a mook.

We need laughter here.

Emily, if a light sleep can sleep w/ the light on, can a hard sleeper sleep with a hardon? badaboom. I'm appearing all week at Wally's Tap.

Oh really?? Wow! Do u know him??

"What I want out of each and every one of you is a hard target search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse, and dog house in that area."

I'm not so certain about the police believing there's no more threat in the area. The helicopters are still out searching, concentrating on the wooded areas. I would assume they think they're laying low until it gets dark. I would recommend staying off the walking trails for the rest of the day.

Metra isn't cheap.

Welcome to the Patch, Ted.

I find it great entertainment! :D

Dick, I like your handle....

There is no confirmation of that, Brian. If we receive verification that the two are linked, you can be certain that Patch will report it.

Thank you.
Lauren Traut,
Associate Regional Editor

Source for your information? I heard one dead and one injured in that fire. And there's nothing on a link from what I can find.

Where is the link?

your a moron

And I'm sure they just release information to you all the time that has not been shared with anyone else. Cool.

You need to stop spreading false reports to create panic.

what are you talking about?

Maybe

somebody wanted what she's smoking.....she's actually very peaceful...;)

That was by far the worse fake joke I have ever heard in my life

Then you need to get out more.

LOVE IT!! LMAO

Listening to police scanner, patrols to search all streets that rhyme with vagina.......patrols dispatched to Regina, Paulina and Lunt.

Again...where is your information coming from? There is no report of the prison break having anything to do with that fire.

I don't really think we need your opinion of what happened. Rumors just cause problems. Facts only please.

Do you also believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy?

Yes. People with guns.

And so do people with an almost unlimited supply of other means.
The common denominator in all killing with whatever, is people.

Jeez, that has to be the longest electric cord EVER !!!! Didn't anyone ever think to follow it? Unless it was a retractable cord, unlikely back then, there should be cord knots ALLL Over!

Mike.

Get this through your thick skull.

THE TWO EVENTS ARE NOT BELIEVED TO BE CONNECTED.

coming from the person who didn't use "two" correctly

^ GO TO OPRAH! GO TO OPRAH! GO TO OPRAH!

Where?

the news just reported on the fire and said nothing of it being connected to these two men

good one

Based on your post, your mother clearly failed to teach you manners. Either that, or you failed her miserably.

It is a saying that goes "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" Find me a gun that has killed someone without the help of human interaction....Ultimately it is indeed the person holding the gun that kills people. Idiot!

The gun only goes off when someone pulls the trigger therefore it is people killing people

More would get accomplished by a shooter seeing someone conceal carrying...he doesn't necessarily even have to shoot. For example, the Oregon mall shooting. There was a man conceal carrying, went to get a closer shot, the shooter saw the man with the gun, then shot himself. Would the shooter have killed more than two people had that man not concealed a weapon for defense? Who knows, but it sure seems like it to me. I am a proud American. I believe in the Constitution. the 2nd Amendment exists for reasons beyond what you are considering. It is what we can use to protect ourselves not only from criminals on the streets, but the government as well if need be. If you disagree with the Constitutional right to have guns, then that is your choice, but do not bash what you clearly do not understand. There are many things I disagree with that our government does, but as a citizen of the United States, I follow the rules. Conflict sells, success stories do not. The past few crimes/deaths in the area I can think of involved a car, bats and clubs, and fire. It is not going to solve anything to take our Constitutional rights away. If you have ever been a defenseless victim of a crime you may understand better. Have a good night.

Who said anyone was taking your rights away... they do more to stop drunk drivers than people selling guns to retards and felons...
You love the constitution...thats hilarious... you guys are dumb asses...

Why yes I indeed would pull my gun if that was the case...if it helped saved the lives of others...but that is the difference between you and I...I have the backbone and strength to do it..as I'm sure you will be the one hiding in the corner wishing you had something to protect yourself. Have a great night!

Bob,
Have you ever applied for your FOID? Gone through the process to obtain a gun? All gun regulations and restrictions accomplish is imposing those rules on legal gun transactions. You can not own a gun legally if you are as you say "retarded" or a felon. If these people are getting guns, I assure you it is not legally. As a law abiding citizen, along with millions of others, we follow the rules. Criminals will ALWAYS break them, they are currently breaking them now. And yes, I do love the Constitution because it was written for all of us, to protect us and are rights to be free. If you want to call me a "dumbass" that is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but may I suggest you read Thomas Paine's writing called Common Sense as well as reread the Constitution (assuming you have read it in the first place).

Yes conceal and you certainly would shoot the wrong person...
You are my hero... so tuff... a simple insult on patch and you're already in a rage... yes id love to see you with a gun... im sure we'd all be so safe... what a dbag

Bob what you clearly fail to see is that in order to obtain a conceal and carry there are classes and training that needs to be done prior to that. Your ignorance is why the world is the way it is. Please don't fault us for your lack of intelligence and understanding of obtaining a gun legally. Before you run your mouth check your facts.

"You love the constitution...thats hilarious... you guys are dumb asses..."
You do know that you choose to live in this country right? If you don't like it, go to Canada or Mexico, we'd be glad to be rid of a moron like you. If you didn't know, criminals aren't really sticklers for following the law. Yes lets make guns illegal to get them off our streets, oh and then lets make heroin and cocaine illegal too so they'll get off of our streets. Oh wait, we did. Drugs aren't anywhere to be found anymore.

And Bob, hunny, you're the only one who is freaking out. The rest of us are talking at you like real adults.

Bob.... When the law abiding citizens refer to conceal and carry we are referring to the LEGAL way to do it. The fact that you choose to call people "retards" just shows your lack of respect towards those that are mentally challenged, and your ignorance in general. So do us all a favor and put your rose colored glasses back on and live in your world where you are always right because none of us care to listen to your childish banter and your lack of respect towards people. If you don't like the fact that Illinois will pass the conceal and carry by May 2013, head north to Canada or south to Mexico as suggested before because there is one state left that does not allow conceal and carry which I am sure will change soon.

Training and Classes... That is what you say there CC... police, military... They go thru more training that any average citizen, yet they often will have wrongful shootings. Especially under stressful situations... I wouldn't trust a dope like you for a second with a gun. Stop acting like such a tough ass...

All of these gun guys have excessively small weiners.

Linda has an excessively small brain. You contribute nothing to the conversation.

Linda,
Are you speaking from experience?
In other words, does your statement mean that you have personally seen the wiener of every guy with a gun? What did you use for comparison?
You have been a very naughty and busy girl, haven't you?
By the way, maybe their wieners are not small, maybe your mouth and vagina are extremely large

Kimberly, I don't think they would be in one place for too long. They do have some cleverness and streetwise skills to them to have gone from the correctional facility practically undetected allegedly to Tinley then to New Lenox. If I were them, I'd be hot on my feet too making sure to not keep in one place too long.
As for the comments about a similarity to Lane Bryant and these guys. There is a better chance of finding these guys since their identities are pretty well known to PD. They may change their looks and clothes, but at least there is a solid base of who is being sought out. Doesn't make it 100% foolproof that we will get them, but it makes the odds of catching them much higher than the unknown suspect of the LB case.
Again, no town in the area is safe. No reason to panic, but at the same time people should be extra careful, make sure their doors are locked, houses secured, car secured and nothing valuable to steal. Without financial support these guys will have a harder time running/hiding. So don't leave your valuables out for these guys or any criminal to take and resell for more cash to add additional speed to their escape.
Watch yourselves and also watch out for your neighbors, too.

Yes and you just shot the other hero that was concealing while the shooter is in the meat section stealing shrimp... great job batman...

How so? Please do share.

Why start now? Every post you have made previously on this thread has contained at least one insult.

Not true. You ever been to a gun show? It depends on the state. I went to a gun show in Indiana, if you live there the state law allows you to buy a gun and walk out with it. But, if I wanted to buy a gun it is different. I would have to fill out the sellers paper work, then he has to walk it over to a guy who has a Federal Firearms License, the FFL guy then will do a background check and follow Illinois or home state laws; which will require me to wait 3 days I think, have a FOID card. There is no loophole as some people claim; it is all state law.

Agree with you, but we can hope! We are the last state in the union to join in on conceal carry, also Chicago gun crimes being among the highest in the country. How can they deny there is a correlation between the two? I guess we will know in a little less than 180 days when they make the rules for carry.

They have no choice, a federal appeals court has ruled it unconstitutional and has ordered that Illinois has 180 days to "allow the Illinois legislature to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment as interpreted in this opinion, on the carrying of guns in public,"
Great day for law abiding citizens in Illinois.

Yes...Illinois has until May 2013 to enact conceal and carry laws...
http://www.rrstar.com/news/x1353221362/Clock-s-ticking-for-Illinois-leaders-to-craft-concealed-carry-bill

Thus proving the point that the only people being affected by gun regulations would be law abiding citizens. Criminals will get guns no matter what. It is 100% fact. FOID card or no FOID, so why do innocent people have to suffer and not be able to protect themselves? I do agree that money talks, that is how most illegal guns are obtained.

I agree with you almost on everything. I believe in our right to have a gun, but I think assault style weapons are over doing it. Hand guns, sure, hunting rifles and shot guns, with a hunting license, sure. That should be the law and only guns available to the general public. Military grade weapons or similar should be left to the military only.

YES TBS, you are correct. Aboloshment is not the answer... However, proper control and education will help curb it. It won't stop it, but it help...
I am quite confident that without the education about DUI, alchol , the enforcment and so on we would have 3X as many deaths... How many "Don't text while You drive" commercials to we see now?

There are also "dozens and dozens of laws" controlling the purchase and ownership of guns. Why do you think that more laws will help.

By the way, the word I think you were trying to spell is alcohol.
The other word that I think you wanted is spelled abolishment.
The other word that I think you wanted is spelled enforcement.
Maybe a little more time spent learning and a little less time spent whining would help.
Wow, and you are the stupid one? You said it, not me

Hey Tired don't be such an asshole....it's Christmas time! Did you not understand what he was trying to say? Some people attempt to contribute despite being very busy. Have you read this read this thread? Spell check is the least of its problems! More specific and better enforcement of current gun laws will not solve all gun crimes/tragedies, but can make a difference! As a hunter who also enjoys common sense I know any new gun laws won't affect me in the least. So in summary be nice it's Christmas, and you're a asshole! I spelled that right, didn't I?

Hey Beating whatever,
Way to chime in with such an intelligent response to my post. Maybe next time you could call me some other names.
Yes, I " Have you read this read this thread?" and have made several points without ever resorting to vulgarity.
COB does not need your help, as limited as it may be, to respond to me. We have agreed and disagreed in the past, again without any name calling or vulgarity.
If you had bothered to read what I have said, you would see that the problem is not the guns, it is the people using, or maybe a better word is misusing them.

Thank you for wishing me a Merry Christmas and yes, you did spell that word correctly, but then I'm sure it is easy for you to spell your own name.

Where did I say more laws... I said gun control, better laws, education...
Then tell me, why do democratic countries like Canada, Germany, France, England and so on... Have less than 100 gun deaths per year, if there isn't a better way. I have never said anything will stop it... However, stop distracting from the problem and admit there is one...

Bob where do you get your information from? The left wing gun grabbing media? 50% of guns are not bought without a background check

I said almost half... Go to a gun show, goto an unlisenced dealer.. No checks... Go to a gun store, yes there are checks, but you can still sell to almost anyone.
Once the check is done, a person can buy as many weapons as they want... So tell me, when that guy who just bought 25 guns, will he sell them, or sleep with them?
Stop being such a fool...

Mike,

Drink some cranberry juice and use a period.

Hey COB,
Just because we are on different sides of this issue does not mean that we are not "ok with each other".
Can you answer the question that I posed? What do you think would happen if a drunk driver hit a school bus and killed 20 children?
Do you think that the President would go on TV saying that we need to change the rules regarding alcohol?
There are around 220 people that will die today because of alcohol. There are around 220 people that will die tomorrow because of alcohol. This will continue every day and I still see alcohol advertised and even promoted at every turn. Why is it that guns are this huge problem when alcohol is causing almost double the amount of deaths each and every year?
What about tobacco?
Around 443,000 people will die from tobacco this year, that works out to about 1200 dead today and another 1200 dead tomorrow and so on.
Where is the public outcry about these deaths?
You want more laws and restrictions placed on responsible gun owners? How did that work in the 28 years that guns were ILLEGAL in the city of Chicago?
How is that working in Mexico, where it is not only illegal to own a gun, but also illegal to own ammunition?
As I said, maybe it is time to stop blaming the object whether it be guns, knives, alcohol, tobacco, or anything else and try to solve this problem by fixing the one common denominator.....people.

You are the one that attacked my spelling, or lack there of.
Most alcohol related deaths are self incflicted. Yes, there are horrible drinking related accidents every day. Yes, I believe there would be more if we didn't have the education and laws that we have. You seem to keep ignoring the word education that I have used over and over. That is directly geared towards people. Just as you said, people drink, and people pull the trigger. I agree with that.
However, to say it's people, not guns, so leave my amendment alone is stupid.

I see very little if any public awarness of guns, and gun saftey. And yes, stronger laws are needed. Stronger laws do not mena stepping on peoples rights.
Tobacco is another self inflicted death. As knowledge about smoking and second hand smoke grew, many steps were taken to curb it. No smoking in public places, it is taxed to the gills, and so on...
Whats the tax if you want to buy an militart grade assult rifle?
If you pass a background check, is there any limit to how many you can buy?
Why can you then goto a gun show as an unlisenced dealer and sell those rifles to anyone?
If you don't feel that we need more education and better laws for what I said above, then ok, whatever...

Answer my question... Because I don't know for sure...
Why are the gun related incidents in so many other domocratic nations so DRASTICALLY below ours?

To answer your question, While I'm not sure, I think it may have to do with the amount of guns that we have compared to those other countries.
For example, in America, there are around 88 guns for every 100 people. In England, that number is around 6 guns for every 100 people.
I have not said that I am against better laws to control who may or may not purchase and own guns, what I have said, over and over, is that the guns are not the ones killing, it is the people that use them.
One of the laws that may help is the one to close the loophole about selling guns at gun shows. Several states, Illinois among them, have done this already. More laws are not the answer, better enforcement of the laws we have might be.

COB, you obviously ignored education your entire life. And other countries don't have the same rights as we do. They aren't the "land of the free". Education is good, yes. When it comes down to it though, it doesn't matter what you've been taught. You can tell someone over and over that if they are going to drink and drive they will kill someone. If you are going to text and drive you will kill someone. If you are going to leave guns laying around and not it a secure case, your kids are going to find it and kill someone. No one actually listens until they kill someone. Education can only get you so far, the rest is up to you. You have to be the one to make right choices. We can't live someones life for them. Most people are smart enough to pick up on these things without being told. We have the ads and commercials for the benefit of people with out common sense; which is extremely uncommon. I'm speaking in general now, not attacking you Bob. It's your job as a parent to educate your children on the dangers of all these things, not the government, not the police, not your next door neighbor. YOU. You owe it to your children to keep them safe, informed, and reliable. My generation is going to be in charge soon and trust me, we don't take crap and spoil everyone like previous generations. When it comes down to it, stupid people are the people that kill others because of stupid actions and ruin it for the rest of us, whose parents raised us right.

This will be a very dangerous country if only criminals are armed.

Whenever I think of gun nuts like Mary and whoever else here saying they only feel safe with a gun, I hear the Creedence Clearwater Revival song "Run Through The Jungle" in my head.

To all. I would like you to let us know how you protect yourself. And you can not say call the police; ask any officer and they will tell you that they investigate crimes, they do not prevent or stop crimes. So someone breaks into your house as you're sleeping and he has a gun, what will you do?

Michael, I suppose you take the appropriate safety measures (keep the safety on, trigger lock, unloading the weapon) before you go to bed right? Or are you like Mel Gibson's character in "Lethal Weapon", sleeping with the gun under your pillow. Try loading your gun or removing the trigger lock after being roused from a sound sleep. See how that works out for you.

Mike F. I am going to surprise you....I do not own a gun. I am all about the rights of the people. I have not fired a gun in over 25 years, and that was at a firing range and it was the only time I ever fired a gun. I believe that you have a right to defend yourself, by whatever means you can, and the constitution and the SCOTUS has protected that right in regards to guns. At least i know I can purchase a gun if I feel I need one.

Mike F.
Whenever somebody starts with the words "gun nuts" to describe people that own guns, I realize that there is no point even trying to have any discussion on the matter of gun control. To you, anybody with a gun is a gun nut. I'll let you in on a little secret, we are not all nuts. The vast majority are responsible GUN OWNERS and we follow the rules regarding safe gun ownership.
For you to try to tell me or any other responsible gun owner what the rules of safe gun ownership are would be like Colonel Sanders giving advise to chickens on how to have a long life.
I would not need to load my gun or remove the trigger lock if roused from a sound sleep, because in my home, when we are there, at least one gun is loaded and ready for use. I don't sleep with one under my pillow, but do have one within arms reach.
When we are not home, any gun that stays home is locked up and not accessible to any burglar unless they can either crack my safe or carry it out after they somehow break the bolts that secure it to my floor.
I have never said that I only feel safe with a gun, but I do feel safer knowing that I have the capability to protect my family should the need arise.

I do not own a gun, but I believe in our right to own one. I am educated on guns because my father taught me. I have never shot up a school or even threatened to. Not every single person is the same, but to rap-up educated, responsible adults in with criminals is just ridiculous. If we had no right to own a weapon, criminals would still have guns - have access to guns - and continue to rob banks, commit hate crimes, commit gang warfare, shoot innocent bystanders, and kill each other with guns.
I certainly believe in limits to gun control. If you don't have a hunting license, you don't need a hunting rifle. Assault style weapons are nothing more then the equivalent to a nice shiny red sports car for your midlife crisis. You have absolutely no need for them in any real life situation (zombies don't really exists).
I'm not a criminal. I am educated. I don't kill people. However, I know how to use a gun and I'm a pretty damn good shot.
And you best believe if we actually had war on our soil, in this day and age, you'd all be ranting and raving about how we need MORE guns. Unless, you want your women and children to get raped.

Why stop there?
There are plenty of people killed with knives every year. Can you imagine how much it would cost for a $5 million liability policy for each and every knife that you own?
Don't forget rocks. Plenty of people are killed with rocks every year. Get ready to pay through the nose for your rock liability insurance.
We also have to worry about baseball bats, sticks, scissors, pens, bow and arrows, shoelaces, power cords, pillows, plastic bags, fists, hammers, screwdrivers, saws, all types of household cleaners,........the list is endless.
Remember, you want to balance the responsibility of ownership and everything on my list has been and will be again, used to kill.

Here is a lost right. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/12/no-warrant-no-problem-how-the-government-can-still-get-your-digital-data/

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08/court-warrant-cellphone-gps-data

DUI checkpoints.
These are in direct violation of the 4th amendment.
Although acknowledging that such roadblocks violate a fundamental constitutional right, Chief Justice Rehnquist argued that they are necessary in order to reduce drunk driving.
So there is your answer, the Chief Justice acknowledged, in his ruling, that DUI checkpoints are unconstitutional but let them happen anyways.

TOTBS, would you rather have a drunk driver plow into your house and kill your family as long as "his rights" are protected?

Mike F.
I would rather that did not happen, but by your logic, anything that anyone does that poses a threat to anyone should be stopped or regulated by the government. I prefer to live a life that is free as guaranteed by the rights I have thanks to the Constitution.

TOTBS, I was citing your example. Don't extrapolate. Implied consent laws have been challenged in courts and have been upheld.

Mike F.
I have no problem with the police giving tests to determine whether or not a driver is impaired, as long as there was a reason for the police to pull the driver over first.
How can you not see that being stopped and questioned by the police for no reason is wrong. The Chief Justice himself said that this practice was unconstitutional.
How would you feel if the police came to your house, forced you to let them in, and searched your house for a "safety inspection"?
Would you allow them to force you to show your bank records because some people cheat on their taxes?
Would you want the government to have access to your medical records?
Would you want the government to have access to your private communication with your lawyer?
These are the things that the 4th amendment was designed to protect and the 2nd amendment was written to give you the ability to stop these things from happening.
May I suggest that you actually read the 4th amendment, to make it easy for you, here it is:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
So when you are randomly stopped by the police without probable cause or a warrant, your 4 amendment rights are being taken away.

B.S. The 4th amendment and all rights similar don't exist anymore because of the Patriot Act. Thank Bush for that one.
I really don't care, I have nothing to hid. I just think it's stupid that weed is still illegal.

It is people like you that "big brother" loves.
If you do not want to be in charge of your own life and instead want somebody else to make the hard decisions, might I suggest you move to a place like China or North Korea? These places will not let you have any of the freedoms that you seem so willing to give up.
I, for one, have served in the military and took an oath to uphold and protect these freedoms, with my life if need be, that are slowly being taken away in the name of safety.
So it seems that we have an easy solution, you go to a country that does not allow freedom and be safe and I will stay here and and take responsibility for myself and family.

So which amendment or right do you hold dear and think should always be preserved?

If you want to live like that then there are plenty of countries that will accommodate you. But, I am willing to bet you won't go to any of them. You just take what you have for granted, you have no clue what liberty or freedom means and what it took to get and keep them. I guess you won't mind if the police want to come search your house any time they want and for any reason or for no reason. After all that is a precious amendment.

Me and my family go to McDonald's, the mall, school, doctor, drive down the street, city council meeting Etc. None of those people are searched or scanned. So what is your point? I also like how you wont address the question I put to you.

People don't fly McDonalds into our fricking buildings!!!!

They do carry guns and bombs though.

No one should take their family to McDonald's. The 'food' is killing your children.

Then don't take your kids there. I will take mine where I damn well please.

You are an angry person. Must be all that fine cuisine.

Not angry, just don't need you telling me what you think I should be doing. You do as you see fit and so will I.

Michael, I agree with you on this one. We are the land of the free, not the land of the tell your neighbor how to live their life. We ARE the land of the FREE TO tell your neighbor how to live their life though. Ha!
I do have to say that almost everyone here is borderline fascist.

I truly appreciate your points, but I just feel like its different. Trains must stay on tracks, but planes can be used as flying weapons. I'm not trying to get away with anything. If tapping our phones, putting camaras everywhere and scanning us makes us safer so be it. I live my life everyday and these so called loss of freedoms haven't affected my way of life at all. Taxing us to death affects me everyday, but not the things I already mentioned.

More people will die of radiation from the TSA Chernoff scans than die in a terrorist attack plane crash, school, movie theater and Israeli settlement on the West bank combined for the next decade!

Well Billable, it is a gradual loss that is the problem. They know they can't take all of them because we would not allow it, but they do it slowly so you do not notice. Take the tax example you give. When the income tax was introduced in 1913 by Woodrow Wilson, it was promised never to exceed 7%, within a few years it was at around 90% and we are now at 35%, soon to be higher for all of us. All because we gave the govt the right to tax us in the 16th amendment. We actually voted to give our money to the govt and it has been a slippery slope ever since. Remember what Obama and Rahm said. "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.” So ask yourself why they couldn't do it before and why they can get it done during a crisis. Because they know we are vulnerable during a crisis.

Mike,
You failed to mention needing $$ for two wars, both of which we tried to stay out of... you forgot to mention all the programs fdr started and got us out if the depression ... roads... parks... infrastructure... a second industrial revolution helping propell USA to the greatest nation in te world ...none of which possible with out these taxez and changes in amendments that you so hate.

You make me laugh. Wilson wanted to get into the war, but that is besides the point. The govt told the citizens that it would never go above 7%, there were no disclaimers, no caveats, wake up man; it will be too late before you realize it.

When did i say anything about wilson... the majority wanted to stay neutral ... that dosent change my points ...
I can only imagine your views on immigrants...

Hey BH,
While you are correct about trains staying on the tracks, I thought this conversation was about personal safety. The train could stay on the tracks and if a terrorist attacked, you would be just as dead as if you were on that plane crashing into a building.
Ever seen Silver Streak? Seems like a lot could have been killed by that train crashing into the station.

If you do not like the conversation, you do not have to come back and read it. As for the rest of us we will exercise our right.

Agreed! There are two men out there that people are actually scared of. Im sure there are many more we need to fear....but these two pulled off a good one. There are kids in school...and with what happened last Friday this shouldnt be taken lightly. People are scared. Law or no law concerning guns...doesnt matter....these guys are out there right now more than likely armed. Just being sensitive to those who are nervous about this....and all the other tragedies occuring lately.

If you search my comments you will find that I was against the patriot act all along. If you don't want a gun then don't have one. But do not run to your neighbors when you feel you need protection and they have a gun.

Is reading comprehension not required of people like you... when did i say i dont want a gun...

I'm pretty sure that is how it works.
Just like we have more cars and therefore more deaths involving cars than they do in England. It is a numbers thing.
By the way, do you know what weapon causes the most deaths in America?
According to the FBI, it is baseball bats. Where is the public outcry for the banning of bats? Why can my 9 year old son go to Walmart and purchase as many bats as he could carry with no backround check or waiting period? Could it be that most are used by people in sports and not to kill? Just like guns.

Just out of curiosity, do these countries you list have more or less two parent families than we do here? Are video games as prevalent in the home in these countries?

Well Genvieve,
As I do feel most people can handle what they see, I feel the parents should be more aware of what there kids are doing, especially if the child is already unstable.
As far as your question. Yes, there are many one and no parent famlies all over the world. Poor is everywhere. Gamers are all over the world.
All will help IMO. At least your post wasn't... You hate the constitution, go move somewhere else.

In other words.... clueless...

I am glad you are exercising your right and finally realizing you beat a dead horse!!!