Heights Alderman Disagrees With Foreclosure Initiative Plans
Ald. Josh Deabel's letter to the editor asks 'Where's this money coming from?'
At least one Heights alderman is not sold on state and Cook County plans to spend millions of dollars on six municipalities (including Chicago Heights) and their foreclosure difficulties.
On Tuesday, Feb. 7, Patch published a story about Gov. Quinn announcing state plans to put $40 million toward a new foreclosure initiative. Cook County Board President Toni Preckwinkle also promised to put $10 million toward the project.
Read about the State of Illinois and Cook County's foreclosure initiative in the original article.
Ward Four Ald. Josh Deabel sent me an email explaining his position on the initiative, as well as its price tag.
Here's what he had to say.
A Different Take
First, no doubt that something needs to be done to try to tackle the foreclosure problem in Chicago Heights. I have been talking about and dealing with that since day one.
As just about everyone knows... the housing collapse was caused by poor policy and extreme mismanagement of government run programs such as Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. To this end, another government run and largely funded program is not the best answer.
A program that is not funded by the government but a program, such as possibly auctioning the homes on the open market, makes the best financial sense. It will not require much funding by government and will put people in the business in charge, not government, which can possibly lead to patronage and other political favors.
Most of all where is this funding coming from for this program? Ten million dollars from a county that is at least 315 million in debt (if not more), and most sadly, $40 million from a state that is 65 billion in the red, dead last of the 50 states for being in the worst financial shape and bond rating. The state already can't pay it's bills (local school district's for one....) and that is after doubling our state income taxes! So in essence Chicago Heights will pay out of its own pocket one way or another for these types of programs.
Bottom line is: It was a poorly run government that led to this problem. What makes you think things are going to change?
Give true business investment the tools to help fix our housing crisis, proper oversight of borrowing, and let's make sure we don't go down the same path twice!
Ald. Deabel's opinions do not reflect those of Chicago Heights Patch.
What do you think of Ald. Deabel's response to the foreclosure initiative? Do you agree? Disagree?
Tell us in the comments.
Winston Wolf
7:08 am on Thursday, February 9, 2012
Obviously, alderman Deabel cares not one whit for the poor and disadvantaged.
Elsie
1:01 pm on Thursday, February 9, 2012
You are very mistaken. I know for a fact Josh has been a dedicated volunteer at PADS(Public Action to Deliver Shelter) for more than 10 years helping the homeless and disadvantaged people in the community.
Jason Amos
7:38 am on Thursday, February 9, 2012
Winston had Dave said this you would be praising him. Just sit back and listen to someone who cares about Chicago Heights. If we had more people on the board like Josh this town would have a voice.
CH Resident
8:25 am on Thursday, February 9, 2012
As my kids would say "Are you kidding me ?". I've been a resident in the 4th ward for nearly 15 years . I have stayed current with my mortgage only to see my property lose it's value by 25 thousand. The foreclosure effects all of us , not only the poor. We have been paying more to the State and Cook County and finally we have a City administration that is fighting to get some funds back to Chicago Heights. I can't believe the alderman I voted for is saying he is against taking funds to help our City. I thought my alderman was one that was responsible for bringing some of our State tax money back to our town. I hope the Mayor does not single out the 4th Ward for funding because my alderman does not understand the good that can come from this . Good job Mayor for bringing back some of our taxes . I voted for the right Mayor because of his qualification , I thought I voted for the right alderman as well . I hope Alderman Deabel can start researching how funds are distributed and fight to help bring federal and State funds back to our City . My Alderman is wrong on this issue.
Tom
8:26 am on Thursday, February 9, 2012
POOR and DISADVANTAGED? give me a break Winston, what about the people who are being moved out of closing hospitals. Oak Forest and Tinley for example, to save less than half the money because the state can't afford them. Who are you trying to bulldoze here? please explain to us where the money is coming from to pay for housing that these people can't afford to begin with. Can't pay bills, can't afford hospitals,WON'T help with the cost of shelters. Your comments sometimes make me ill.obviously YOU don't care ONE WHIT about how in the HELL we are going to pay for a total of 50 MILLION dollars worth of housing between Illinois and Cook county. I Can't afford it anymore, WE are going broke trying to supply so called entitlements.
What about aid for people who are a hairs breadth away from losing their homes now, why not help them first so we don't continue this endless cycle of foreclosure and then trying after the fact to help them find another home.
CH Resident
9:38 am on Thursday, February 9, 2012
Tom
We have been paying already since 2010 on taxes on candy and alcohol that were passed by Springfield . Don't you think it should come back to us ? This isn't new taxes. I am with you on everyone taxing us to death . But if we can't control Springfield, we need to fight to get back some funds back to our cities . Should we let other towns get their share of this money and we sit back and pay for it and get nothing back?
Lucy
10:04 am on Thursday, February 9, 2012
This is a very tough topic. We are getting killed by the lowering house values in CH. Something needs to happen. However, the county and state are broke. I don't know the answer because I realize the importance of the foreclosure situation and the impact to the other residents when a house in their neighborhood goes into foreclosure, however the state and county have no money and are one of the lowest rated states in the country. We keep being asked to pay more for real estate taxes, state income taxes, etc. And I have serious concerns on the management of these funds.
Tom
10:12 am on Thursday, February 9, 2012
I feel the same way you do Lucy, if there isn't enough money to pay my bills, I either have to cut back on expenses or do without. I can't go to my neighbors and ask them to contribute money because I'm not fiscally responsible and that is the bare bones stripped down story of what Quinn,Preckwinkle and the federal gov are doing right now. IT IS NOT OKAY to just print more money or rob Peter to pay Paul. Stop the madness and CONTROL SPENDING.
mr lahey
10:52 am on Thursday, February 9, 2012
It appers that all Mr Deabel did was ask where the money was originating from.
Answer : Us. Broke ,mismanaged, last ranked state - run by Democrats and now you can't even ask what they're doing with our money? People please wake up.
Liberalsim is great until you run out of other people's money.
Vote them out in November. The Alderman and questions like his are exactly what we need for any hope in the future. That helps all men and even Wolfs
Every person cares about the disadvantaged but also possesses the right to their own search for truth and protection of personal wealth.
Mark
2:00 pm on Thursday, February 9, 2012
Not sure how questioning a middle-class subsidy (which is basically what the state initiative is) is attacking the poor and disadvantaged since they are not going to qualify under this program anyway.
Second-- its not clear to me that this program is going to work at all. A much better way to attack the underlying problem would be for the city of CH to agressively enforce the building code and start handing down tickets and fines against the banks who now own the vacant houses. This would encourage them to discount them to the point that people would buy and move into them. As currently configured this program rewards (yet again) the banksters who created this mess by trying to put a floor on their losses, and paying for that floor with our money.
Winston Wolf
5:23 pm on Thursday, February 9, 2012
Elsie, I don't think that volunteering necessarily means that he cares. Giving a homeless person a meal now and then does not really do much to lift them out of poverty. Regardless of his motives, Mr. Deabel is now in a public position, and he is showing his true colors. Perhaps he should emerge from his Country Club neighborhood and attempt to understand the bigger picture.
Joe Q. Public
7:07 pm on Thursday, February 9, 2012
I’ve met Josh and he’s genuinely a good family guy. And he definitely cares about Chicago Heights. I don’t agree with Josh entirely though his position is entirely rational and a legitimate point of view. Government is in debt. That’s a fact and that’s an issue. Throwing money at housing in this real estate market is a bad idea. Selling housing at a market rate (even if ridiculously low) is free to government. So I think I get Josh’s point of view. However, local officials can’t control what higher levels of government do. Therefore if the money is there, Chicago Heights should take it. The issue now should be how it is spent. To the extent there is any flexibility in how the money is spent, there should be focus on using it to attract middle class individuals and families. Using the money to subsidize people who really can’t afford to take care of a home will not only be a waste but a future time bomb when the homes fall into disrepair and mortgages into default. Too many areas of Chicago Heights have been there and done that. Something different needs to happen now. If the money could be used to tear down vacant homes and buildings, that would be better. The vacant land and lots could set the stage for a developer to come in someday. In the meantime it would raise the value of existing occupied homes. I believe they are doing something like this in Cleveland.
jay dennis
8:01 am on Friday, February 10, 2012
Joe Q, I can see your point as well as several others comments. This is an issue that the has to be worked out & I really don't at this point what is right or wrong. I do know that Springfield has no idea as to what they are doing. At this point THEY are going to make an attempt to shift school dist. pensions to the local level. THIS SHOULD BE A VERY LARGE CONCERN TO THE HOMEOWNERS IN CHICAGO HEIGHTS AS WELL AS OTHER TOWNS BECAUSE PROPERTY TAXES WILL INCREASE. The best thing that can be done is to contact our REPRESTATIVES $ see that they come up with another solution. Springfield created this problem & their fix it too pass it down. They did find the 15 million or more to rehab the state house though. Something isn't adding up here. There is also talk at this time consideration as to what to do with the townships which in our case is Bloom. All I can say is that would be a sad day for many who use their services. Time will tell on this one, that is for sure.
Mark
12:22 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
Well I think you are thinking of Detroit where the situation is much different than it is here. Detroit is loosing population at a dramatic pace therefore there needs to be a reduction in housing stock. Chicago Heights has lost some population but is relatively stable. In addition at least some of that population loss seems to be a reduction in household size therefore the need to reduce the number of houses is minimal.
Believing that a bunch of scattered vacant lots are going to attract developers probably misunderstands the way houses get built these days. The big developers would rather build 200 houses at a crack than 20 and small developers are as likely to renovate existing houses as to build new ones.
On the other hand a bunch of vacant houses don't help values any. The vacant houses sit out there at the bottom of the market and make the value of occupied houses look bad. If you look at the CH housing market there are a bunch of $15,000 to $30,000 foreclosure houses on the market. This negatively affects the $80,000 to $150,000 occupied house market. Push the banks to dump those houses. Then the very depressed bottom of the market falls out and the $80,000 houses are all that's left.
Therefore the answer is to motivate the banks sitting on these vacant houses to sell. How do you do that? Make life difficult for them at the political level-- hand down fines for houses not being secure. Hand down fines for houses being vacant.
Joe Q. Public
8:14 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
Mark I hear what you are saying. And I agree with making life difficult for the banks so they get the homes sold. That’s a lesser evil than letting them decay. But my issue is stemming the tide of low income individuals moving into Chicago Heights. And I’m laughing at what I just wrote. It’s like someone saying they want to stem the tide of grocery stores from selling food. But all impossible ideas have to start somewhere. So here’s the thing. With all these houses that are going for dirt cheap, too many are either going to be purchased by people that can’t afford to take care of them or worse yet, investors are going to come in buy them and turn them into cheap rentals. Low income owners and renters can’t move into a house that doesn’t exist. Obviously there are limits as to the scope of systematically tearing down houses. So my solution, if it even counts as one, isn’t going to fix the whole problem. And you’re right, scattered lots won’t bring in a developer. Though in some parts of Chicago Heights, particularly the east side, so much is already gone that if the city keeps up with tearing down old empty structures that eventually there will be some nice sized parcels of land to work with. What Detroit is doing is somewhat different than Cleveland. Here’s a 60 Minutes piece on it: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57344513/there-goes-the-neighborhood/
Mark
11:04 pm on Sunday, February 12, 2012
Well you may get investors (like me) and their tenants but I don't think you are going to get home-owners who cannot afford the upkeep because the banking environment makes these cash purchases. This is part of the problem. The banking industry is so shut down these days that the kind of people that would move into CH simply cannot get mortgages. A large part of the low prices of these foreclosed houses is that they must be purchased for CASH and that precludes 99.9% of all Americans from purchasing. We are so used to 0% down deals that coming up with $20,000 to $50,000 in cash is unthinkable, if not impossible.
If you think that demolishing houses is going to fix this problem think again. Look at neighborhoods on the south side of Chicago where the city has be systematically tearing down houses for 40 or 50 years. In some places 75% of the housing has been demolished and the neighborhood is no closer to turning around than before the demolition started.
If you want to attract successful families to CH and improve house prices then the secret is good schools, not vacant lots. People will move where there are low property taxes and good schools. People will commute to jobs, they will repair the houses, but in the way American education is currently organized they have to live near the schools. In the long run good schools are the only government program that can do much to turn around a neighborhood.
Joe Q. Public
6:02 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
Hey Mark. I don’t want to overstate tearing down houses as a singular solution. But I think there are situations where that is desirable. Defining what those situations might look like is a sticky wicket so to speak. But generally, capitalism is all about supply and demand. And given your assessment about bank lending (which I agree with), there just isn’t enough demand to soak up supply. If we were living in Orland Park or Downers Grove, houses are still expensive enough that investors and low income people probably won’t buy a lot of homes there. Even before the real estate bust, Chicago Heights was a very inexpensive market and now it is catastrophically so. As a consequence, I think the city needs a strategy to prevent both an avalanche of rentals and low income renters or owners. If and when the banks ever loosen their purse strings, there will be a period where people will snap up homes before supply runs low and prices start to rise. It is during that time where Chicago Heights will be at the greatest risk. If too many investors and low income people buy into what used to be considered “good” Chicago Heights neighborhoods, middle income people will no longer want to buy there in the future. And when that happens, it’s game over for Chicago Heights. The south suburbs as a whole has similar problems so even if Chicago Heights gets it right, problems from adjacent communities may spill over here. But we should try and do what we can anyway.
Mark
8:55 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Joe Q. I don't think that "supply and demand" is exactly whats going on here. A lot of people want to live in Chicago Heights (at least the better neighborhoods) so the demand is there. What is askew is the finance markets. Because real estate is usually purchased using a mostly debt its pricing is susceptible to wide swings based on what's happening in the debt markets and it is this situation that's got the CH's (and other similarly positioned cities across the country) equation out of whack. Demolishing those houses is more likely to create a stigma which affects the city's image long after the credit markets have returned to "normal" than it is to change the situation by changing the demand curve.
I say again that the way to prop up housing prices is to improve the demand side-- i.e. to make the city a desirable "destination" for the kind of middle-class homeowners who maintain their properties, demand quality from the schools and are active in community government.
For most of the last 100 years (maybe even longer) Americans have dealt with civic problems by packing up and moving-- east to west, Urban to suburban to exurban, south to north and then north to south. Bottom line we carry these problems in us-- location is not the problem. Self awareness is. Your analysis that middle class people are "good" and poorer people "bad" for a community may not work. Even the rich have problems and are unhappy. They just have the money to hide it better.
Joe Q. Public
7:32 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
Mark here’s my take on the debt markets. Before the bust, people were getting no doc loans, no down payment loans, loans despite questionable credit, and sometimes loans for more than a house was worth. All the buyers that easy money created also created demand. Today, nearly none of that is happening. Someday, I suspect banks will loosen (a little) down payment requirements and credit standards. But the rest of the debt market is gone forever. So there is a permanent reduction in buyers. You’re right, there are people who want to buy houses in Chicago Heights but can’t. I say most of those will never be able to. Therefore I myself do not count that as meaningful “demand”. If one accepts that premise, then my thesis of having too many houses is easier to accept. I view making Chicago Heights “desirable” (improving schools, etc.) as helping us compete for buyers with other towns that also have too many houses rather than it helping increase demand (again because of the debt markets). Rich people of course are no better than poor people so if I leave that impression, thanks for calling me out on it. I’m just afraid of the negative feedback loop happening here that’s killed the south side of Chicago, Harvey, etc. The front line on preventing that is stopping people from buying houses who shouldn’t and encouraging people who should own homes to take the plunge here in Chicago Heights. Easier said than done of course.
Tom
7:22 am on Saturday, February 11, 2012
Winston I'm not sure but I think you may be a frustrated comedian. I live in the same neighborhood as Mr Deabel and we are no more a country club area than any other neighborhood in the Heights. The main difference is we care about and maintain our property.and if you read the signs they say "Historic Country Club" it is a reference to the past.Please wake up and get your head out of wherever you've been keeping it.
Joe Q. Public
10:08 am on Saturday, February 11, 2012
I share Tom’s sentiment and want to expand on it. I live in the same “Country Club” neighborhood as well. For anyone that’s ever been through there, it’s a beautiful place. There are stretches of Country Club Drive one could use as a backdrop for a Norman Rockwell-esque movie. It’s amazing anybody in 2012 could ever say that about a neighborhood in Chicago Heights. But it’s true. And say it during a national real estate depression that’s taken down much better neighborhoods than ours. Even more amazing. If one was to, for example, take a drive south of Highway 30 down Edgewood, Euclid, and the Indian Hill area…lots of houses there are fundamentally better than houses in the Country Club neighborhood. Nonetheless, Indian Hill looks tired, sad, and somewhat trashy. What’s the difference? Maintenance. Nobody takes care of anything. Well, some people do of course (just not nearly enough). And there are a few houses in the Country Club neighborhood that aren’t up to snuff. But all neighborhoods have good and bad exceptions to the rule. Anyway, people’s behavior towards not only their home but towards each other has everything to do with whether a neighborhood is “nice” or not. Therefore, for anyone to impugn that Josh Deabel is some sort of out of touch elitist because he happens to live near other people who take care of their property just isn’t fair.
Winston Wolf
2:31 pm on Saturday, February 11, 2012
Joe and Tom, while I disagree with you, I respect your well-thought out positions. Jason Amos could use a lesson from both of you.
Lee Malizia
8:46 am on Monday, February 13, 2012
I agree wholeheartedly with Josh. We will pay one way or another in our already bursting-at-the seams tax structure. But, this "bailout" from the State on the foreclosure issue is not all bad. If we can get those houses cleaned up, sold, and paying taxes again (albeit higher taxes to help pay for the program, right?) it will be good for the community - in so many respects. Housing values have gone down because there are so many foreclosures and short sales in the area. Many sellers are not selling because they can't make enough money to break even much less make a little profit. And those that have to sell, take a big hit. It's a sad situation and truly devastating. The city of Hammond, In had a similar government grant where the city bought foreclosed homes, fixed them up, and put them back on the market. They gave the buyers 20% down - a free grant. They have to live in the house for at least 5 years.
So, the freebie from the state might not be all bad. We have to look at these things from all sides.
Someone said Josh D. doesn't care for the poor - no way. He cares alot. He cares for the community. Aldermans don't get paid much - if anything. Believe me, it's a thankless job. He is looking at the big picture. "Uncle Sam" is so much in debt in the State of Ill. and in Chicago Heights. Taxes are sky high. People are moving out, not in. The more we stay in debt, the worse it gets. Business can't afford to stay here. Wake up. Nothing is free.
Winston Wolf
9:20 am on Monday, February 13, 2012
I do not agree with your assessment of Mr. Deabel's motives. In my opinion, he wants to be Mayor and will stop at nothing to make that a reality. He joined forces with Joe Faso in one of the most vicious and reprehensible campaigns in history. Josh has to live with that association for the rest of his life, and I am sure that the good people of Chicago Heights will never let him forget it.
Joe Q. Public
6:37 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012
Winston, I agree that Joe Faso’s campaign was way over the top slinging mud against Gonzales. It was not right. While I don’t like or approve of mudslinging, most politicians do it to one degree or another. Why I don’t know, but they do. Even Gonzales slung some mud. So I don’t think it’s fair to judge Josh on this alone. There are more objective ways to asses a man’s character. Even Harry Truman got his start in politics from ol’ Kansas City boss Tom Pendergast. And I’m not saying Joe Faso is a Tom Pendergast. I’m just saying Joe’s mudslinging shouldn’t be used against Josh. As far as mudslinging in general goes, I don’t assume integrity from a non-mudslinging politician any more than I assume poor character from one who does. If Joe Faso’s mudslinging raises your suspicion of either Joe or Josh, I say okay fine. So long as your judgment includes all the facts about these guys…not just the ones that validate your negative narrative. Life is nuanced and it’s rarely a black or white thing. Lastly, if you don’t prefer the positions of Joe or Josh, that’s fine. It’s a free country. Having positions different than yours shouldn’t make one a bad person. Challenge a politician’s assertions and reasoning, not their motives or character. Let’s not behave in Chicago Heights like they do in Washington.
Mark
4:17 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
Interesting how these conversations end up being about people and politics and not issues. Current count is approximately 300 vacant houses in Chicago Heights and about twice that many more not yet vacant but someplace in the foreclosure process. That works out to be about 1 house in 10.
Joe Q. Public
7:04 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
I hear ya. With some folks things tend to get off issues fast.
Tom
10:00 pm on Wednesday, February 15, 2012
Winston,Winston,Winston. You're cheerleading has derailed your one track mind yet again. Why is it that you feel like you have to be the cheerleading teams captain? Please try with all of your might to stick to to issues at hand and check your vitriol at the door.