The "tax increase" is really just the expiration of the so-called "Bush tax cuts." For the last four years, Democrats have carped about the "Bush tax cuts" and blamed them (erroneously) for the dismal economy, Why aren't you glad the cuts may be expiring?

Wheaton Watcher, Republicans don't want a tax increase for anyone. You democrat party are the ones who want the Bush Tax cuts to expire as Dave has pointed out. Democrats want additional taxes, Republicans don't. It's really that simple. You can play any game with words you want, but you and your Democrat buddies will be the reason that any increase in our taxes occurs. Tax everyone else as long is its not you, right??

How are the Democrats responsible? Because they won't cave into Republican demands? Boehner and Cantor are the ones holding the country hostage once again, just as they did with the last debt ceiling crisis. When are you republican sheeple going to wake up and smell the fascism? They don't care about you or how much you pay in taxes. As long as they and their corporate masters don't have to pay, that is all they care about. Get a clue Dave and NotBuyingIt.

Dave & Not, we also got the Bush deficits to go along with the cuts. Much of the deficits went to 3 wars, 2 of which were questionable. Afghanistan was justified.

Eric Roberts, you, my friend, are the sheeple that needs to wake up and smell the coffee... You can demonize us and pretend we are not people and that there are corporate masters pulling all the strings, but that just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Republicans, I submit, care MORE about people. Real people. ALL people. You Dems talk about us like we are robots. This shows your mentality of divisiveness. We will never come together as a nation as long as you stay on that path. Your divide and conquer strategy is ruining this country.

WW, I'm not laying blame for where we are on either side, but I'm NOT letting you get away with saying the Repubs are going to be responsible for a TAX INCREASE!! Your party will be responsible for that. It doesn't make sense to claim that the ending of our tax break is actually a tax that we want!!! Repub=no tax Dem=TAXTAXTAX

Look at the big picture by parties! The Democrats get their tax increase, while the Republicans get their spending cuts - everyone is happy except those of us paying the tab!
As long as voters continue to vote along party lines - instead of what is good for the country while using common sense, there will continue to be trouble in Washington! We voters need to CLEAN the House and Senate to get our affairs in order and throw the rascals out!

John Tips, If you are asking folks to stop voting along party lines, there would need to be an alternative. Dems would have to stop voting for Dems... You and I both know that will never happen. It's machine politics, a union mentality... The people who vote Democrat are either so rich it doesn't matter to them how much they have to pay in taxes or in need of what the Dems will always promise, government programs. Repubs will never get the black vote or the hispanic vote. The white vote is split. The Dems will run this country into the ground soon enough with their taxing and spending.

Perfectly put, notbuyingit. You are spot on. The majority of Democrat voters are members of the "taker" class, and they will NEVER vote for anyone who might come between them and their free goodies!!!

Not buying it, Dems will never stop voting for Dems? But Repubs will vote for Dems? Which Dem candidate did you vote for recently?

Stones, No a Republican would not vote for a Dem. Dems look at the world differently than we do. We believe in self-reliance and wish for more limited government. Dems want to turn our country into their socialist utopia. It's sad, but the republicans can't do anything to stop you. You have all the votes. Most of the people in this nation believe as you do. 97% of the black voters, over 70% of the hispanic voters and half of the white voters want this country to take care of them. Looks like you guys will run this country into the ground soon enough...

NotBuyingit, I've been a Republican my whole life, a moderate one and I just voted for a Democratic predidential candidate for the first time ever. My first vote was for Reagan in 1980. The problem is, the Tea Party has pulled the GOP far right and have relied on BS and lies like the birther nonsense. On top of that, they couldn't even slate a decent candidate we could rally around. Romney was not the right guy and he was pandering to whatever audience he was in front of seemingly forgetting we would all see it eventually in our 24 hour news cycle.

Too far right and too far left are dangerous places. It seems the far right is worse.

Great post Bob, the shrinking tax base and the out of control cost of health care are going to criple this nation if nothing is done.The so called cliff may be a blessing in disguise.

Agree.

@ Bob - on what do you base your statement "The private work force is now the minority"? According to the Dept. of Labor - Bureau of Labor Statistics there are 111,890,000 private sector jobs vs. 21,962,00 public sector jobs as of Nov. 2012 - 89,928,000 MORE private sector jobs than public sector. The percentage of public sector jobs as a percentage of the population is the lowest in over 30 yrs, the public sector has been shedding jobs like crazy - as a matter of fact if those jobs had been kept the unemployment rate would be well under 7%. Which "regulations" are you talking about - as I remember, it was the LACK of regulations (and the lax enforcement of existing ones) on the financial industry that caused the economic meltdown. If low taxes on the upper 1 or 2 % are supposed to spur job growth, how come after almost 12 years of record low taxes on those so-called "job creators" we don't have 0% unemployment? Why in the world - for the first time in our history - did we cut taxes while we went to war? Our econominc difficulties are due to lack of regulations on Wall St,, 2 wars for which we did not pay, tax cuts overwhlmingly benefitting the very wealthy & a Medicare prescription drug program that was also enacted without being paid for - and that prevents Medicare from negotiating drug prices w/pharmacuetical companies like other insurance providers are allowed to do.

Refering to others as idiots are we? Boy, how enlightened we are. Try to spell correctly before spewing.

Nothing will get better. We will all just end up paying more...besides that nothing will change...for the better anyway.

How nice for you Oswego Resident!!! It will only cost me about $2600, but unlike you, I don't have an extra 200+ a month to give to Obama to spend. I'm tapped out!!! Good for you if you have the extra 400+ a month year after year. I don't and most of us don't either. wonder what your spouse would say about your cavalier statements, hmmm???

As I remember it was W. Bush who got rid of budget surpluses & doubled our National Debt. The "free speech" zone laws have been used since the late '80s (who was President then?). What laws have Obama enactged to restrict guns? None - gun right have actually expanded under Obama. When did Obama sign any executive order to "take control of all natural resources"? Never - the only ones who wll shut off your electric, gas & etc are the utility companies.

Obama did sign the executive order to take control of all resources buddy,you think they have expanded..you have no idea what Obama is planning..what did he tell Brady people " we're working on it but we have to take a few steps first" what did he say on tv in the interview? " AK -47's belong in the war theatre..but on my home town people are being killed by cheap handguns" now what happens when you get rid of Ak-47 and hand guns?...I think that puts us right in the shot gun,rifle area ...just like all the other presidents you have to listen to his words not just hear them....just wait and see...people citizens,the court,local politicians can pass all they want,if Obama gives the order your shit is gone...just like the people in New Orleans that stayed to protect their families property and belongings the "Military" and police were sent in to collect "All" guns and .....and I repeat they were told " Shoot anyone that refuses to hand over their guns" .....that was on a local level and not a shot was fired all guns were confinscated....you don't think people and the government paid attention to that? Obama knows it...it was all of the presidents that got us into debit..Dems and Republicans...alike...I don't care what CCW passes each have been on a state level...we have given the government enough power to trump it if they like..the FOID cards didn't do anyone any good in New Orleans...just go check out the resources thing..and the other executive orders..

Name them.

The cliff was invented by Republican members of Congress who want Obama & the nation to fail so they can reap political benefit - see how comnpletely stupid they are?

Walt, that is so stupid it's not even worth a rebuttal...

We are all victims of the Obama philosophy, "punish the successful, and reward the and lazy". This type of "community activist" thinking will eventually bring down the country.

We went to war in not one, but two overseas countries, and for the first time in history not only did we NOT raise taxes to pay for them, we CUT taxes! When the tax cuts were first proposes, non other than Alan Greenspan - former Republican fed chairman - during a Congressional hearing predicted that it would lead to massive deficits & increase the national debt, and that was before we launched 2 wars that will eventually cost us over $10 Trillion. If the rates from the Clinton administration had been left in place our national debt would be close to $0 (zero) right now - you know, the rates under which more than 22 Million new jobs were created. Yes we do spend too much - especially on the military, and giving subsidies to profitable industries like fossil fuels, agribusiness & for offshoring jobs.

Walt, the primary idea behind cutting taxes was to "starve the beast" which is our government. Unfortunately, Bush and the Republicans kept spending like drunken sailors and now Obama and the Democrats have stepped it up a couple more notches. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that this country will need to go bankrupt before we all learn our lesson.

A fiscal cliff..lol how about since the government busted U.S. oil companies buying stolen oil from the cartels in Mexico gas goes down,how about all of the U.S. money we found in Iraq lowers the interest rate,how about the 14trillion in fake debit gets some gone..

how about we do what Iceland did with our banking system and corrupt politicians..arrest them and forgive all debit..student loans,home loans,business loans..because Iceland said our system is fraudulent in its making and set up so the people are never to have their debit repaid....Didn't hear anything about this in the media now did we?....Just check out Iceland forgives all debit....They set up the same system we run now with the banks and companies...and now threw it out...the economy is booming now..people have money to spend to put back in to the cities and companies...to create more jobs...Take a house payment,all the stuff from different places you would buy with it...Of course not with out government we now send the FBI to raid students houses for not paying back the loan that keeps them in debit and broke,disgruntled..we start to think "Is collage worth the debit you will have for years to come" some think not..

How about the money spent on programs like "fast and furious" are spent on something else..How about the money we spend sending FBI agents into teenage groups and suggesting criminal acts and getting the kids to go along with it then arresting them is spent on something else,or the money that was paid to police officers to dress like protestors during the G8 summit and Occupy and start fights with police is spent on something else,,we have the CIA,FBI,DIA,DHLS,ICE, and god know what else is in the works of creation we are all going to have to pay for..the more we create ese entities to restrict,the more money we will spend on them...

All I see is people guessing how much they will have left and pointing the finger at each other over who is president...and not a word on what is draining your money,nor a word about it was Democrats and Republicans alike that created these ways we have now...to care more about your paycheck what percent you have left,more than what's taking your paycheck is what is the matter with this world....want more money? Get a hold of your politicians local and higher and start petitioning to stop some of the useless programs they have and you will have more money..

We could stop all discretionary spending, and we would still be in serious debt problems. The problem isn't spending too much on fighting the distribution of drugs, conduction military operations in the Middle East, aid to farmers (direct or through price supports), or giving aid to various foreign governements. It's interest on federal debt, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

Ok so what your saying is we have enough money to. Support wars,military,federal,operations,help any nation and fund any nation that wants to fit the war on drugs,give medications to other countries for free that senior citizens have to pay for,my grandmother used to cut her pills in half to have enough because they were $640 a bottle for 30 days...but that same prescription it other parts of the country give it out for free and it came from the U.S. ...in good faith gestures...so we have enough money to be giving Pakistan 2 trillion a year to fight terrorism where we killed Osama Bin Laden...we have enough money to give to other countries to provide free health care,food,weapons,and shelter to people who in the end "Hate" America...but we do not have enough money for Medicaid,Medicare or to help the people in America?..I.don't believe that for one second..the same account that pays for Medicaid is the same account that pays for the War on Drugs...while the U.S. allows tons of drugs to be shipped to the U.S. and the HBSC bank was laundering the money..as the U.S. government was too in exchange for information on other cartels...which have now multiplied...Mexico says now have about 80 new cartels...but we don't have enough money for the people in the U.S.

John,

In a word, yes. The problem is that people are living longer, and thus collecting more Social Security benefits. And because they are living longer, they are using more health care services. I may be wrong on my statistics, but when Social Security started, there were 15 working Americans for every retiree. I think we are under 5 working Americans for every retiree, and that number will get worse as the Baby Boomers continue to retire.

As for the cost of drugs, remember that since the cost of drugs are regulated in so many parts of the world, drug companies have to make up the cost somewhere. It's here. If we started to regulate the cost of drugs, you won't see as many new drugs. I remember reading somewhere that Canadian drug companies simply produce drugs invented in the U.S. under licenses, because the pricing regulations don't allow a Canadian firm to recoup the cost of R&D. That's why a lot of European drug companies do risk sharing with U.S. firms. They can recoup the cost of R&D in the U.S.

You might get your point across better and start people thinking if you wouldn't add silly/hateful comments like this. Grow up and face the music; being a bully is not the way to get anything accomplished. This mentality is exactly why people refused to vote Republican.

Dont like it,don't read it. Or move on.

Spot on Working...

Working for Oswego, Are you saying that your Dems don't say silly/hateful things?? Really?? It's only Republicans??? Gimme a freakin' break. Your mentality is what is causing the downfall of our country. You refuse to accept that your side is exactly the same as ours. Repubs get half of the white vote, none of the black, and very little of the hispanic. Your party will stay in power for a long time and in my view, turn us into a nation of takers... "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"...

How does providing health care violate anyone's religious beliefs? If certain care is against your religion, you don't have to get it. Why are Christian based companies falling short of providing health care to their employees?

The birth control argument is old and stale. Fact: The Bible stats that a person is required to take care of themselves. How many prescriptions out there are because people do not take care of themselves? Given that, any owner can claim they don't have to cover it since it's against their beliefs. If they want to ban one, ban them all then. No more blood pressure, type 2 diabetes medication, gout, etc, etc.

Gina, providing healthcare isn't the argument. The argument is about Birth Control and some are claiming that BC can be viewed as a form of murder of the innocent. That whole life starts at conception thing. I can understand that belief, to a degree, when taking about the pill or other drugs...but condoms stop that life from starting and many of the groups lump both forms into one.

Martin - Birth control prevents an egg from being fertilized. It is not the abortion pill. The morning after pill does not abort a fertilized egg. If a woman is pregnant, birth control and morning after pill do absolutely nothing. Not to mention birth control pills provide numerous other health benefits for women. Why is the church willing to provide coverage for Viagra? There's no medical benefit to that.

Standard BC also prevents the egg from attaching.

I'm not defending their beliefs...just restating what they are. Personally, I think healthcare companies would save thousands of dollars a year by covering BC instead of only covering birth...$30/month for BC or >$6k for a birth.

A possible way to get around the requirements of 'ObamaCare' could be as simple as having a religious insurance company. The company I work for chose BCBSIL over Aetna this year...why not have a company that states they are a Catholic insurance company and cover what the Pope says needs to and can be covered.

Why has Obama refused to release his college transcripts? Because he is no where near as bright as his devout worshipers believe he is.

I666, yeah because graduating with a BA from Columbia University and magna cum laude from Harvard Law School is so easy.

OK Mike. Show me the transcripts.......

Since when are Presidents or candidates required to release college transcripts? Because he's won two elections the rules have changed. You far right loonies just keep grasping at straws because that's all you have, that and flat out lies?

Why didn't Romney release his tax returns and off-shore investment portfolio?

So, despiser, do you receive social security? One of your parents? A child? Do you work at a company that has government contracts? Your spouse? Your parents? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then YOU are part of the problem, receiving government largess and all..

So you're only okay with "separation of Church and State" when the State tries to interfere with religion, but not vice versa? Hypocrite.

Despiser,
The Constitution say NOTHING about the separation of Church and State. That is a fallacy from the Supreme Court in the ealry 1800s if I recall correctly. There are two mentions of religion in the Constitution...one is that there will not be a State sponsored one the other is about taking a religious test for government office

Martin:

From the First Amendment of the Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, nor the free exercise thereof."

The idea of Seperation came about in a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote, where he talks of a "wall of separation between church and state". I believe the letter was written to a religious organization, not sure which on. But one thing is for sure, it's not in the Constitution.

So Vera, you are brighter than a University of Chicago Constitutional scholar? Because that is what President Obama was, and I'm quite sure he knows and understands much more of the subject than you do.

Vera, are you quoting JJJ or is that all your nonsense? If so, that's pretty funny. Apparently Preisdent Obama was right because the Supreme Court upheld the law in it's entirety.

Stones,
ObamaCare was upheld by the Supreme Court as a Tax. That's not how Obama, Pelosi, etc wanted it to be upheld, but it was upheld never the less. Not sure if it supports or denies the idea of President being a Constitutional Scholar.

Here Stones!

Select a category: 

EDITORIAL: Obama flunks constitutional law
President attacks Supreme Court in advance of Obamacare ruling

Illustration by Alexander Hunter for The Washington Times
By THE WASHINGTON TIMES -The Washington Times Tuesday, April 3, 2012
For someone who once taught classes at a law school, President Obama doesn’t seem to know much about the powers of the Supreme Court.

At a press conference Monday, Mr. Obama said he did not think the high court would rule that forcing Americans to buy health insurance was unconstitutional. “Ultimately, I am confident that the Supreme Court will not take what would be an unprecedented, extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically elected Congress,” he said.

There’s plenty of precedent for voiding a law like Obamacare. The top justices have invalidated more than 150 federal laws in part or in whole. Nor would there be anything extraordinary about such a step, as courts frequently make these types of rulings. In fact, it would be unprecedented and extraordinary for it to let stand the unconstitutional aspects of Obamacare.

Reject
Despiser of Obama
3:50 pm on Friday, December 28, 2012
DEFENSE & NATIONAL SECURITY
CONSTITUTIONAL EXPERTS CALL OBAMA’S ABUSE OF POWER HISTORIC
By: Hope Hodge  
9/12/2012 03:15 PM
RESIZE: AAA
PRINT
236
As president, Barack Obama has made a habit of bypassing or ignoring constitutional limitations on his power, a panel of experts told the House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday.
Obama’s claiming of executive privilege during the Fast and Furious debacle has already faded from the headlines, and it may be hard to remember the weight of the outrage expressed at the beginning of the year, when Obama made a handful of unilateral “recess” appointments, opting to bypass a Senate that wasn’t actually in recess.
But these incidents and a number of others were strung together at the hearing as proof of a dangerous trend in the administration.
“The administration has repeatedly put its partisan agenda above the rule of law,” committee chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas) said. “In doing so, it has eroded the constitutional and legal foundation that have kept America prosperous and free for over 200 years.”

Vera, you're going with the Washington Times? A Conservative "newspaper" founded by Sun Myung Moon, the leader of the Unification Church? You better check with your priest on this one.

Martin, the Supreme Court didn't uphold the law as a tax. They ruled the mandate was a tax, therefore it wasn't in violation of the Constitution. Also keep in mind that we already had a healthcare mandate called Medicare. It is taken out of each of your paychecks and you are required by law to enroll in Medicare when you turn 65.

^^ Stupidest comment of the year. And that's quite an accomplishment here.

Mouse are you saying it's not true? Why do you think the Catholic Archdiose are all filing law suits?

@ Despiser - what radio show do you host? It's funny because these Catholic & other religious institutions will cover BC for their faculty & staff at colleges like Georgetown, but not undergrad & grad students whose tuition & fees pay for the insurance (hypocrisy?). The administration allowed a religious exemption. The exemption applies to church organizations themselves, but not to affiliated nonprofit corporations, like hospitals, that do not rely primarily on members of the faith as employees. I don't care much for the Catholic Church - an arm of a foreign government (the Vatican) that has conspired to enable & protect child rapists around the world for decades. Why is it OK for an employer to impose their religious beliefs on an employee working for an organization whose primary function is NOT a religious one? The employees are the ones paying the health insurance premiums, and are the ones who choose to use BC - or to not use it.

Walt Georgetown is Catholic in name only. They are not under the rule of the Archdiose or Vatican rule.

Walt may I suggest that you listen to Relevant radio 930AM to learn about the birth control issue and Obamas attack on religious freedom. Obama is a puke.

A hospital is not a church. It does not have the same protections a church has. Just because it is run by a church means nothing. A hospital is still a business and they
must play by the same rules as other businesses.

Eric I have to say you are wrong. A Chatolic hospital is a branch of the Catholic Church and both are covered with the same guidelines and principles and both are inner sanctums.

No, just their Medicare/Medicaid funding.

Vera, that's a stupid question or statement, with you, I'm never sure. But to give you an example of hoe the Church thinks, a few years ago at Catholic St. Joseph Hospital In Phoenix, AZ, during an emergency case involving a pregnant woman, doctors made a medical decision to save the woman's life. Unforntunately they couldn't save the baby, who would not have survived anyway. Their difficult decison saved one human life rather than losing two.

Because of that decision, the Archbishop has forbidden any priest from performing any Sacrament at the hospital. Including Annointing of the Sick. Does that make sense? Not to a rational person it doesn't.

The Church is not always right in their decisons. Though I don't know what any of this has to do with the fiscal cliff, but you brought it into the conversation like you always do.

Stones the reason the hospital can't no longer give sacraments or anoint the sick any longer is because.
Phoenix diocese strips St. Joseph's Hospital of Catholic status

@Despiser

Maybe because they don't want to deal with pedophile Priests. Yes, such good charitable organization they really are. Plus, all of your sources are from right-wing news sources, which most of us know that is all you spout here. The ACA does not make Catholic hospitals provide contraception, it makes the insurance companies offer that as well as viagra as part of the policy, but then again, go back to Fox news and be content in your stupidity.

The answer on Viagra coverage is usually yes, Catholic leaders say. And they argue that’s neither hypocritical nor sexist.
Procreation is something the Catholic church encourages. And Viagra and other erectile dysfunction drugs can be of help.

Grandpamike who do you think pays the insurance premiums for their employees at Catholic hospitals and organizations? They do, not the ACA. So they can't dictate that they have to include birth control in their plans. What will happen? The Catholic groups will drop their insurance for their employees and let them go on Obamacare.

It proves my point! When religious freedom is discussed the only ammunition and same old crap from idiots response is about Pedophile Priest. Get over it already it's old news. Waa Waa Pedophile Preist. Talk about the BSA now and their huge cover up on sexual abuse. Keep your children in the BSA.

Mike F., Is that what you want?? That would be how you would deal with this? Why would you insist that Catholic Institutions be required to peform services or provide for services that are wholly against their core values?? Why don't you respect their beliefs???

Oh, and we were the only area outside of NY to enjoy a decline in property values in 2012. I wonder what we can attribute that to? Gun violence in the city that prohibits gun ownership? Chicago - better just visit, living here will bankrupt or kill you. Nobody is leaving here alive apparently.

I think you are young and will realize that the no spin zone, if that is what it is still called, is the spin zone. Being conservative is great, but enjoying Bill O'Reilly will wear off. Too many hardline positions just mean that votes are lost - humanity is ever shifting and needs moderate attention. Liberals are just as bad, and I am even more radical still.

Knew I forgot someone....forgot the biggest bloviator of them all. :)

And Jeff...you are so correct (I was going to say right but thought better of it). O'Reilly was fun to watch for a while, but I got tired of the stupid comments by him and especially certain regular guests and guest-hosts.

Never happen, because they at least have a brain to support their idiotic viewpoints, and it sells a lot of advertising.

Bill O'Reiley is actually just playing a part, just like Stephen Colbert is. The only difference is that one audience 'gets it', and the other believes it.

If you have ever seen him 'off-air' you will see that he is not the same person, nor does he hold the same views, as the person he is on the air. It's an act, for a certain segment of the population, and he knows exactly how to exploit it.

Tim,

Not according to Al Franken. According to the chapter on him in "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair & Balanced Look At The Right", O'Reilly is as big a bloviating bully off the air as he is on the air.

Tim what you said about O'Rielly is that verified with snopes or did you actually speak to him?

I wish I was Despiser of Obama and had virtually NOTHING ELSE TO DO IN LIFE other than playing on Patch 24/7/364.

I always thought there was 365.25 in a year not 364?

Oooh, Vera! You got me on a typo!

And, of course, simultaneously proved my point re: your lack of any sort of life whatsoever outside of the Patch Playground. GOOD FOR YOU, GIRLY!

Will, you're wrong.

In his spare time he goes to "prayer vigils"-sorry, meant to say organized harrassments-outside of abortion clinics.

Now that's funny Mike! Harassment. Prove your point. I bet you don't mind the violent NATO protesters or the moron occupy wall street protesters. I suppose they are peaceful and don't bother anyone. Still haven't seen anyone with the gonades to stop us at our peaceful protest and I bet your Priest even goes to abortion mills to pray the rosary and shows his presence in protest of murder.

I'd rather watch him than Sean Insanity.

Vera, that is officially your dumbest comment to date. But I'm sure you'll too it at some point.

^And he just did.

Making full-time workers into part-time workers will not exclude these business owners from paying the ACA rates - they will have to pay based on "full time equivalent" (FTE) status - that is, if you have 2 workers who work 20 hrs each = 1 FTE worker. I for one am tired of subsidizing the health care for these employer's workers.

Actually Walter the FTE part is important ... but not exactly how you portray it.

For purposes of the ACA a company is classified as a small business (or large business for that matter) based on the number of FTE workers they employ. HOWEVER, for purposes of whether an individual employee counts toward penalties or is eligible for health coverage the 30 hour test applies.

So ... a company may have 500 half time workers (250 FTEs) and while the company qualifies as a large business for the ACA none are required to have health coverage or cause the company penalties if they are uncovered.

There is a good description on page two, here:
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8275.pdf

Walter what some companies will do is then downsize to below 50 workers or hire more workers and make them all part time workers worrking less than 30 hours a week to avoid the penalties or provide health care.

Family farms will disappear quickly with the $1m limit as will many family businesses. Farms values are tied up in land and the heirs won't have the cash to pay the tax while many small businesses likewise have much of their value tied up in inventory and equipment. The businesses may have to be liquidated and the employees laid off. Oh well more people on unemployment. Soon, instead of Millionaires and Billionaires being anyone making over $250,000 that amount will go down to $100,000.

This is just so beyond "fair share" that I am sickened by it... Can anyone, ANYONE at all, justify why the federal government should claim as their "fair share", 55% of a family farm, when the farmer dies??? I don't get it!!! Why should they get even a single penny???? We sit back and accept this, and the number will move down, down, down, and soon enough it will be all of us... I'm disgusted by our acceptance of this robbery from government. I put this squarely on the heads of all the Dems out there who are caught up in this "them vs us" mentality... Your vote has consequences. Soon enough its going to be you too. You have to make it stop!!!!!

WOULD it help if the NAVY got rid of 200 Admirals and 300 Generals most of them running the PR and screen actors guild of the Pentagon? The negotiators have never brought them into the conversation what to do with the NAVY if there is no ship for each Admiral as Romney wanted to do create more Admirals, as for the inheritance and other taxes if we go back to the good ole days of IKE now we know why so many farms have disappeared and I thought it was because of Suburban sprawl, PETE AND THE FEAR MERCHANT NBI never say a thing why after the BUSHWHACKER TAX CUTS they liquidated 20 % of mfg and factory's by modernizing them stripping and shipping them and transferring the Technology to the COMMIE HEART LAND this is how TPARTY TRAITORS create jobs and what the GRIPPER called morning in America,
We need to return to the good ole day of real prosperity start with rates starting at 40% after 250,000, it used to be 90 75%
The unprecedented prosperity the Eisenhower and Kennedy years that's what we long for get rid of McDonalds, Papa Johns all the fast food MSG hangovers we demand more family restaurants,a constant flow of cheap water from Lake Mich and cheap parking in the Loop and a stop to PPH and no abortions and every cancer survivor and College kid with a worthless degree and 500, 000, 000 loan TO their local bank or INTERNATIONAL bankster is on his-her own.

Pete, the "family farm" is pretty much a myth these days. Big Ag companies like Monsanto have forced them out.

Mike F., although you are correct about "family farms" being forced out of business by the larger Monsantos of the world, you are not correct about them being a "myth", there are still many of them around. This is data from the last census:

Very large family farms (101,265) grossing over $500,000
Large family farms (86,551) grossing between $250,000 and $500,000
Small family farms (1,925,799) grossing under $250,000

FYI, they have gay marriage (or, as they call it, "marriage") and government-funded healthcare.

Finally! A balanced perspective. It is all of us! To fix it, you need to raise taxes and cut spending, neither of which I like, but both of which are necessary. Better to spread the pain to all now. Maybe not in the format of the fiscal cliff, but in some long term, responsible format, and certainly without kicking the can down the road.

I agree WIU85. Time for all Americans to take on Washington. Us Americans should be allowed to watch the Senate and House on TV as they negotiate this Fiscal Cliff Mess. Then us Americans who pay these misfits can see who really works for the American people. If anything requires reforming it is Washington and their spending. On Jan 1, regardless of the outcome of the FC negotiations, Americans will be hit with a 1 TRILLION Obamacare tax HIKE. This includes the Obamacare Medical Device Tax,Obamacare Flex account tax, Obamacare Surtax on Investment Income.(A new 3.8 percentage point surtax on investment income)Obamacare Haircut for Medical Itemized Deductions and Obamacare Medicare Payroll Tax Hike.
And by the way, Obama issued an executive order to end the pay freeze on gov't employees. Therefore, Obama orders pay raises for Biden, Members of Congress and all Federal Workers!

WIU85...I definitely appreciate your post, but I am not as optimistic as you are. Is Washington intentionally dividing us, or are they a reflection of us? Spending too much, wasting too much, charging too much, expecting too much has become a national past time. We are addicted to stuff and privilege and getting our way. I don't see any coming together in Washington or in the populace in the near future unless it is at the bottom of the cliff. The only ones pulling their weight and making sacrifices for this country are our military. How much longer can we afford to have their protection and who will benefit the most when America hits bottom? When we understand that, maybe we will know better where to direct our anger and how shared sacrifice and a common mission could pull us out of this tail spin.

I like your sentiment, however, politics if often ugly. Look at President Jackson's campaigns.

@ G.Ryan, Thank you for bringing up Obama's EO regarding the end to the pay freezes for Federal employees he signed yesterday, just caught it on zerohedge as I'm reading the news. "It's time for ALL of them to go!" pretty much sums it up, yeah?
In another article, 'In a crushing blow to socialism, wealth redistribution and purveyors of the "fairness doctrine" (as defined here first) everywhere, the French Constitutional Council ruled on Saturday that Hollande's brilliant idea to tax millionaires at a 75% tax rate - a move which has since seen numerous millionaires leave France and move to Belgium - is unconstitutional.' (found on ZeroHedge.com)

Ron Paul chimes in, article I found at ZH also, basically sums it up, 'On the Fiscal Cliff, we have passed the point of no return'. I imagine there are many Americans not too happy with the way things are heading. What I've learned thus far is this: It appears the only real players left in the 'game' they call Wall Street are the Federal Reserve and its 12 Primary Dealers. Just buying/selling to each other, their algo-bots/HFT machines, that the MO at present seems how to lure in any & every sucker they can into this non-market and the question still remains: the 'market' will crash when 'they', the high priests, money changers whom Jesus threw out of the temple (the one time he had been sincerely angry), the 'powers that be' SAY SO, or they really are incompetent and just throwing all the kitchen sinks at it, from the 80$billion/mo in MBS crap the banks are discharging themselves of (wringing their hands of?) [Fed owning a good chunk of once American assets.]
Now seem deadset on owning much of the stock market yet, looks like the next crash is a Bond market crash. Regards, Frank

Suzanne, I am not optimistic at all, and agree with your comments about additction to stuff. At this time I am very discouraged with what is happening and have a great fear of what is to come.

Would you support zeroing out social security for everyone currently receiving it? That would fix it NOW. Maybe have 4 generations of people living under the same roof? It worked during the depression. In short, make last month's social security check everyone's last? Ditto on medicare & medicaid? Imagine the business this would generate for the mortuaries! How about zeroing out all military spending, 100% of it TODAY. How about fedederal funds to schools? District 200 gets about 6% of their funds from the fed. We could get rid of all band, athletics, arts, and special ed to offset this without raising taxes. Want to do that? Good idea?

Unfortunately Christine most of the cuts will come at the military’s expense and not any “entitlements”. Many of the cutbacks will hurt civilian contractors doing work for the military and they will have to cut back their work force. Many already have. None of the cuts will help alleviate the real “spending” problem.

Now you are on to something. Make 100% of the government to GO AWAY. No more road building, no schools, no help for the elderly (your relatives maybe)? No farm subsidies (especially in the red plains states - a republican "small government" stronghold). No military, no Army Corp of Engineers to keep the Mississippi open. Screw the farmers & manufacturers who use it. You are on to something!

Can you cite a source for your data?

David what do you think we spend on illegals? Peanuts?

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-01-30/news/31004595_1_deportation-kumar-kibble-rob-paral

http://www.redstate.com/jeremyintucson/2011/05/18/what-illegal-immigration-is-costing-americaamericans/

Silly me illegal's are entitled to my tax dollars.

David are you worried about your MUCHACHOS?

I can only counter that the situation you describe is simply what are called in the business world as 'externalities', the lovely returns of Reaganomics/Bush/Clintonomics ala NAFTA, CAFTA, replacing GAAT with the new prince, WTO in '95. These policies have consequences, and I feel a strong element of why Mexican citizens have been moving to America, as they have been undercut by big Agriculture, primarily American and 'trans-national' players who can afford to take losses whereas the generational family farmers of Mexico (and the US of course, sadly) can not afford. Everyone wants everything cheap, we have been debased and engineered, sooner we face the truth and work to get our act together the sooner we can return to the true principles of which this Republic was founded on. Was reading the other day an article, it isn't so much the 'PTB' or the 'elites' we should worry about, but a majority of people who will fight tooth and nail to protect all the free stuff they feel they deserve, just see former Soviet Union, it was the majority responsible for the tyranny of the minority. Similar to getting treatment to an alcoholic, I hear. You are seen as the enemy, and must be stopped. This is the USA today. Can we ever be healed or un-engineered? I'd never thought about it this way.

Relax, DoO... I asked about your sources. Didn't express an opinion.

DOD -VERA thinks the RED ARMY, Bain and the Caryle Group are much more deserving to get his-her hard earned tax dollars, I vote none of the above!

The POTUS and TPARTY agreed to cut medicare by 30% SSA 10% SSI TOTALLY and build new AIRCRAFT CARRIERS for the Red Sea, Sea of Galilee and the pacific to protect BAIN interests in MACAU and the Chinese mainland a new Internet tax proposed by the Banksters will help fill the 5 Trillion deficit and 20 T debt because the 25 million unemployed due to offshoring jobs will soon be 50 million and 50 of the industrial and manufactured capacity will also double it is called TParty EFFICIENCY.
It is the Dem's and ADAM SMITH'S fault for being part of the wonderful world of NEO COMMIE CAPITALISM the few crisis's every few years are now permanent unless the TRAITORS BRING THE JOBS BACK and the wing nut Murkans and Americans organize in the old CIO ways of the 30's and until then the Corp can finance the rebuilding of America and if that includes Socialists and American Commie party's rather than brutal Chinese slave labor versions so be it!

maybe the trees are not affected by Chinese shite they are the !% lawyers or merchants etc who buy their supplies from Bain in RED CHINA
just a guess! If they were Dem's they will be screwed unless it is Soros!

Jim, perhaps the productive "makers" of Elmhurst simply understand that, now that Obama has been reelected, the "takers" will rule the day for four more years. So, instead of complaining, they are quietly working to hide as much of their hard earned money as possible before Mr. O and his posse come to confiscate it. There are some great off-shore places to squirrel away your wealth while you wait for this idiot to complete his final term.

I think it would be fun to have an aircraft carrier in the Sea of Galilee. Build a canal from the Med to get it there. Turning it around once in the SoG would be a bit of a drag though. Maybe it could be call "Disney-Middle East". Think of the revenue stream generated by ticket sales! My guess is the Neocons would deem it vital to national security, and worthy of a tax cut for the 1 % to finance it!

You think they care??
All they care about is lining their pockets.
I think it was a great idea for the President to take a $5 million dollar vacation to Hawaii during this crisis.
I also think it is a great thing that the President is allowing our representatives to enjoy a pay raise while the rest of us are looking at higher taxes.
I wonder how many of us would have received a pay raise if we had screwed up our jobs as bad as they screw up theirs.

I KNOW they don't care. They say they do. They should rewrite the Preamble of the Constituion, It now should start with "BLEED The People!

If you think about it, there are only 535 members of Congress. Even by the time you add staff, both in Washington and in offices back home, that still pales in comparison to the number of people on active duty in the military, as well as the number of retirees drawing Social Security and getting Medicare benefits.

Remember that the four biggest expeditures for the federal government are, and not necessarily in this order, Medicare benefits, Medicaid benefits, Social Security benefits, and debt payments (both interest and principal).

Part of the problem is that people are living longer. So, they draw Social Security longer, and they incur more health care benefits. Couple that with the ratio between retirees and working Americans becoming less favorable (it's less than 5 working Americans for every retiree), and there is a real problem that needs to be addressed.

Did you actually ask them, or is the "we" just "you"?

Mike F. myself and the great parishioners at my Church and even the Deacon. Why? Are you jealous or does your liberal Church and parishioners and Priest adore scum socialist Obama.

Vera, you caught a cold from President Obama? I didn't realize you two were so close.

Great to hear about your healing bluebird. Once Obamacare kicks in, we're all going to rely on this kind of healthcare.

I did have that treatment that you talked about. But the nerves in my foot did not respond to that or to physical therapy, while the rest of my sciatica did. All I did was stand up to sing a Christmas carol at the Christmas Eve service and suddenly I felt it going down the sciatica and all around the area of my foot. It was the sort of feeling you get when you have put something to sleep by sitting on it--and then you move and release that area. It lasted for an hour, long after the carols were sung and the service over.

He's sure not a Christian! So I still say he's a Muslim and it shows.

Vera, Maybe because he's not a Muslim....

How many times has TURD BLOSSOM been given everything that there is to know on POTUS BACKGROUND makes no difference to the TPARTY oxy users it does not matter nor register sorry Stones he -she could care less if he was a JEW he would be a traitor like a JEW for JESUS or some other racist crap they never quit nor will we.

Or maybe it's the fact that John Boehner is invoking the "Hastert Rule" and not negotiating in good faith? He's the roadblock to any solution. Mitch McConell and the rest of the country's leadership are trying to come to a resolution but that bonehead is in the way.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/12/30/manchin-introduces-bill-to-ease-cliff/
Everything is manipulated anyhow, so they aren't going over any cliff regardless. Who's gonna make 'em, right? About your sell off US sovereign (is it really?) to dispose with the current debt (how much is it in total, ie unfunded liabilities, etc), seems like a good idea. Can we first sell it back to the original people's of this land, they get first bid? How about liquidating mega-corporations and tycoons like John Paulson, Gates, Freewheelin' Buffett, Cayman islands (i hear there is upwards of 20$ trillion down there) for starters?
Their wealth is a function or derivative of government spending in many cases, a good portion of it anyway. (Was reading hence the reason the Republicans can't cut too much spending as it directly correlates, how broken the dam system is, or dammed up better, it would render our effective US GDP to -8%. That's a tough one to swallow, yes?)
Good luck tomorrow everyone.

re the -8% figure I mentioned above, here is the original comment:
"The House conservative Tea Party types should cut 10% across the board from the budget including Obama's exec order salary increase for govt workers.
Cut 10% on EVERYTHING. Then when the debt limit has to be raised cut 5-7% more. Real cuts on everything."

"Great idea, but it'll never happen. They can't make actual cuts to spending because it cuts right into GDP. If it weren't for gov't deficit spending, GDP would be about -8% right now. They know this. To cut spending means to admit that their policies have done nothing to rejuvenate the economy, and it means political suicide. Never gonna happen until the bond market makes it so."

That's a great idea BUTCH. As long as we take Federal spending back to the levels they were at during those administrations as well.

Stones,
I read the report on Vera... It was well written, well documented, well sourced and not shocking at all. I especially enjoyed the piece that Fox news did on "It"

No Vera, there are many other reasons as well. All documented in every Patch thread.

It takes a clown to watch a clown

COB, Looks like you nailed it. But why would anyone in Washington give a damn about the American people.

Lesson #1

U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
Recent budget cuts: $38,500,000,000

Now, let's remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a houshold budget:

Annual family income: $21,700
Money the family spent: $38,200
New debt on credit card: $16,500
Outstanding balance on credit card: $142,710
Total budget cuts so far: $38.50

Got it??... OK now,

Lesson #2:

Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:

Let's say, You come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in you neighborhood....
and your home has sewage all the way to your ceilings. What do you think you should do.....

Raise the ceiling, or remove the Moron

Olddeegee, if you truly wished for a better world, you would start with yourself and stop berating DoO.

IF u actually mean EGYPT and ISRAEL here's a second but there is not a FUNDY as in Christian charlatan in the WESTERN WORLD who will go along especially their bought and paid for top flimflam man PAT ROBERTSON the # 2 Conny of the media .

We as a nation must come full circle to our roots, as we look at the recent victory in CO and WA, particularly CO as it pertains to legalizing Hemp for agriculture in the state (the medicinal family of Cannabis shall be a boon as well, if they can keep big tobacco restrained from flooding the market with product, and other states will follow upon verifying the numbers coming from profits). Hemp for victory! WWII, our nation in a crisis, mother nature is always willing to oblige. Toss Big Ag/Big Chem/Big Pharma out of our homes, and retake control of our destiny. Nothing more to say.

Those 3 (and their financial clergy, which follows.. IRS, Ike's MIC, et al) seem to be the biggest obstacle to securing and prospering a dynamic and fiscally strong Republic. This is afterall our home, is it not? Not some reality show or academic classroom. This is all we have, all we ever will have. Each other, our families, our lifeblood. Great big country, plenty of resources, we will make it. Should not worry so much about trans-nat'l corps and their priesthoods, secret societies, CFR, media, hollywood, etc.

At the end of the day, what real bearing or meaning do these entities have on us, our families, our home and hearth? Where have we gone wrong? Honestly.
Hey, Every day we see a little more light. Sooner or later we'll get it right. Happy new year's one and all.

Climax Blues Band - Couldn't Get it Right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-054Wp2qR0

Not to worry, there's an app [Executive Order] for that.

Vera, what the hell does that have to do with the fiscal cliff? You are so predictable, no matter the topic, you have to throw this crap in.

Stones it goes to show how stupid Obama is when he speaks and is stupid to be President too!

And back at you Mr. Butch, just slipped out to the local grocery store, picked up a 6'er of Founder's 'Dirty Basterd' (wanted the 'Breakfast Stout', but at 8.3% abv and only a 4-pack, opted for the 'Basterd' as it is 8.5% abv and economically sound, at least I'll start the new year on a good leg..) and would ya know it, the dang self-checkout machine WOULDN'T accept my 1963 90% silver FDR (da*n commie basterd!) dime. And I had exactly $9.11 to my name, gladly put that silver dime into my safekeeping's wallet.
(Guess it is worth a whole $2.10 in silver, nice! My trouble is I had all my money invested in high-end electronics, much of which I had liquidated to fellow audiophiles earlier this year [boating accident? seen that pic of the guys in the swimming pool with the radio and 6-banger hooked up on slippers? LOL, that was me!], still keeping the 80's Japanese NAD amp [sucker has some juice! went through a couple speakers/woofers already yet] and was late coming to PM's, but better late than never, Mmm-Hmm, I know that's right, i'n that right, fellow American?)
Just straight blues all nite long here at this homestead, probably 'til 4am maybe slip a little jazz and it was Hendrix which busted my last Dynaudio woofer, surefire woofer test if ever there was one. Enjoy, Frank.

Why waste good hemp on humps? A lot more than 150 B has vanished from IRAQI and AFGHAN C-130'S FLOWN by BLACKWATER and other Patriots who are the new millionaires and billionaires unlike the grunts in the military the Helliburton and Blackwater contractors will not have a glove laid on them

Would that turn you on or make your whistler's dixie some? Whatever the case, I'm here to oblige, as Lennon says, "satisfaction guaranteed", come, get your tickets! Step right up! And the same, as ol' Phil says, "I don't care anymore!". I live in Oak Forest, not sure about Butch. Damn find drummer, however. Who cares, check out 'Who Cares' tune entitled, 'Out of My Mind'. You shall get a glimpse of MY alter egoes. F'n who cares, right. Enjoy, Frank.

And I live in one of the best Cities in Illinois! Hurrah!

DoO, if you told me it was going to be sunny I'd bring an umbrella.

And all of that does not equal the aid grants and mil assistance given the East New York or Eretz YIsrael and the misinformation on Russia is also what the State and other agencies give NGO aid to RUSSIAN elderly Jews if u believe there are that many left why did the Russians send non circumcised Jews to Israel in the last appeal for save the Russian Jews!
The Brkln Mafia and Macau vice lord have all their money tied up in GOP POTUS candidates so nitwits like Turd blossom is given the task of this misinformation.